The Texas Greataxe Massacre

[Origen]

There are going to be two parties. One will be murdered in the first fifteen minutes. The others will be the characters who are actually played for the adventure.

Murdered party:
3rd level gnome bard. I'll make it myself, if nobody else wants to.

Possible cast of characters who investigate:
A grim, overly serious 3rd level human ranger who takes his job way too seriously, and needs to lighten up. TWF or bow, doesn't matter.
A holier than thou 3rd level dwarven cleric who is a bit of a racist and believes dwarves are truly the chosen people.

More ideas?

We'll need character builds for the murdered party, but nothing too specific. Some folks are definitely going to need help making their characters, and some might need people to just have them made for them.

Character traits would help to describe what the person is supposed to be, and maybe a few suggestions for what to do in combat.

[Wook]

There are going to be two parties. One will be murdered in the first fifteen minutes. The others will be the characters who are actually played for the adventure.

Murdered party:
3rd level gnome bard. I'll make it myself, if nobody else wants to.

Possible cast of characters who investigate:
A grim, overly serious 3rd level human ranger who takes his job way too seriously, and needs to lighten up. TWF or bow, doesn't matter.
A holier than thou 3rd level dwarven cleric who is a bit of a racist and believes dwarves are truly the chosen people.

More ideas?

We'll need character builds for the murdered party, but nothing too specific. Some folks are definitely going to need help making their characters, and some might need people to just have them made for them.

Character traits would help to describe what the person is supposed to be, and maybe a few suggestions for what to do in combat.

3rd level elven rogue - Lollygagging klepto
3rd level halfling wizard - makes all sorts of innuendo jokes about what he can do with alter self
3rd level half orc bard - Wears pink, makes illusions of flowers, and tries to spread happiness. Wields a greataxe and - "you won't like me when I'm angry."

[Lost Soul]

Just a quatuor of level 3 bards: one on drums, two on guitars, one with an enchanted guitar that plays extra low but has only four strings.

And they all have fantastic hair.

[Origen]

3rd level dwarven fighter: Sir Tankard. High strength, high con. Slow as molasses in January, low dex. Claims to be dwarven royalty, but nobody believes him.

[Detritus]

Human Paladin obnoxiously overbearing about his/her religion.

Half-Elf Druid obnoxiously overbearing about nature and the sentient races' place in it.

Specialist Evoker who is a pyromaniac. I don't think there's a strong race requirement here.

EDIT -- These are all potential murder victims.

[hidufel]

Oh Oh! we have GOT to have a half elf sorcerer! A gimped race with a gimped class at level 3! While all the other spellcasters have 2nd level spells, the sorc can still hitm with that level 1 whammy!

[Origen]

Potential Murder Victims:
Dok, 3rd level gnome bard.
Gimp, a half-elf sorcerer 3 with an inferiority complex
Human Paladin 3 obnoxiously overbearing about his/her religion.
Half-Elf Druid 3 who is obnoxiously overbearing about nature and the sentient races' place in it.
Pyro, Wizard 3 - Specialist Evoker who is a pyromaniac. I don't think there's a strong race requirement here.

Investigating party:
A grim, overly serious 3rd level human ranger who takes his job way too seriously, and needs to lighten up. TWF or bow, doesn't matter.
A holier than thou 3rd level dwarven cleric who is a bit of a racist and believes dwarves are truly the chosen people.
3rd level dwarven fighter: Sir Tankard. High strength, high con. Slow as molasses in January, low dex. Claims to be dwarven royalty, but nobody believes him.
3rd level elven rogue - Lollygagging klepto
3rd level halfling wizard - makes all sorts of innuendo jokes about what he can do with alter self
3rd level half orc bard - Wears pink, makes illusions of flowers, and tries to spread happiness. Wields a greataxe and - "you won't like me when I'm angry."

Did I miss any?

[Origen]

Anyone with a DMG handy? How much wealth does a 3rd level character get?

[Detritus]

Anyone with a DMG handy? How much wealth does a 3rd level character get?
2700 gp is the recommended wealth at 3rd level.

[Origen]

2700 gp is the recommended wealth at 3rd level.

Thank you, sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

The first, by choice.

The second, by profession.

[Wook]

Potential Murder Victims:
Dok, 3rd level gnome bard.

:eek2:
:dazed052:
:laugh:
:roll:

Priceless.

[Origen]

Potential Murder Victims:
Dok, 3rd level gnome bard.
Gimp, a half-elf sorcerer 3 with an inferiority complex
Human Paladin 3 obnoxiously overbearing about his/her religion.
Half-Elf Druid 3 who is obnoxiously overbearing about nature and the sentient races' place in it.
Pyro, Wizard 3 - Specialist Evoker who is a pyromaniac. I don't think there's a strong race requirement here.

Investigating party:
A grim, overly serious 3rd level human ranger who takes his job way too seriously, and needs to lighten up. TWF or bow, doesn't matter.
A holier than thou 3rd level dwarven cleric who is a bit of a racist and believes dwarves are truly the chosen people.
3rd level dwarven fighter: Sir Tankard. High strength, high con. Slow as molasses in January, low dex. Claims to be dwarven royalty, but nobody believes him.
3rd level elven rogue - Lollygagging klepto
3rd level halfling wizard - makes all sorts of innuendo jokes about what he can do with alter self
3rd level half orc bard - Wears pink, makes illusions of flowers, and tries to spread happiness. Wields a greataxe and - "you won't like me when I'm angry."

Did I miss any?

Duh. What was I thinking? I want the initial combat to go as quickly as possible. So make the murdered party 1st level.

*thunks forehead*

[Wook]

The death of the first party does not erquire 1st level. just something suitably terrifying to take the smaller less capable group down. AOe works nicely.

[Origen]

The death of the first party does not erquire 1st level. just something suitably terrifying to take the smaller less capable group down. AOe works nicely.

What I'm intending is the combat will reveal something of the nature of the foe, but not much.

[Detritus]

Thank you, sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

The first, by choice.

The second, by profession.
I live to serve.

Do you have any restrictions in mind concerning percentage of total wealth concentrated in a single item? Basically, are +1 weapons in play? If not, what about +1 armor/shields?

[Origen]

I live to serve.

Do you have any restrictions in mind concerning percentage of total wealth concentrated in a single item? Basically, are +1 weapons in play? If not, what about +1 armor/shields?

At this level, I'm not really concerned about it. A +1 weapon, shield or armor shouldn't present any problem.

Naturally, I've seen MORE than my fair share of DMs live to regret those words, but at third level for a one-shot, I'm not too concerned.

[Detritus]

At this level, I'm not really concerned about it. A +1 weapon, shield or armor shouldn't present any problem.

Naturally, I've seen MORE than my fair share of DMs live to regret those words, but at third level for a one-shot, I'm not too concerned.
Today, +1 weapons. Tomorrow, the world!

The numbers work out such that a +1 weapon leaves a 3rd level PC less than 400 gp to buy everything else. I didn't think they'd be that big of a deal, but it never hurts to ask...

[BattleNymph]

3rd level half orc bard - Wears pink, makes illusions of flowers, and tries to spread happiness. Wields a greataxe and - "you won't like me when I'm angry."

Hey, if I play this I can randomly burst into song during the game. *pulls out her tattered copy of led zeppelin lyrics*

[SD Anderson]

3rd level elven rogue - Lollygagging klepto
3rd level halfling wizard - makes all sorts of innuendo jokes about what he can do with alter self
3rd level half orc bard - Wears pink, makes illusions of flowers, and tries to spread happiness. Wields a greataxe and - "you won't like me when I'm angry."

Human 2nd level Barbarian 1st level expert (Weapon making).. Carries a dozen light throwing picks and is an expert fast draw with them.

[Wook]

Wealth note - Compounding wealth. Every time someone dies another 2700gp hits the table. This could get interesting...

[SD Anderson]

Wealth note - Compounding wealth. Every time someone dies another 2700gp hits the table. This could get interesting...

Insurance Fraud in D&D? Hmmm. We need a Barbara Stanwyck look alike and a Fred McMurra double too.

[Detritus]

This is all about the crunch. If you want to play a character similar to this one, you may fill in personal details as you see fit.

Also, the SRD is located at http://d20srd.org, if you've never visited it before. I started putting in some hyperlinks in this write-up but there are potentially many such links, so I encourage anyone interested in this sort of character to look up anything not linked.

Human Cleric 3, Alignment NG

Domains
Charm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm#charmDomain) - Granted Power: +4 bonus to Charisma for 1 minute, 1/day, activated as a free action.

Luck (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#luckDomain) - Granted Power: Re-roll one die roll before DM declares the roll a success or failure.

Abilities
STR - 16 [10 points, +3 modifier]
DEX - 10 [2 points, +0 modifier]
CON - 14 [6 points, +2 modifier]
INT - 10 [2 points, +0 modifier]
WIS - 14 [6 points, +2 modifier]
CHA - 14 [6 points, +2 modifier]

HP - 24
AC - 19
Initiative - +0
Speed - 20 ft.

BAB - +2
Attacks - +4 melee, +4 grapple
Damage - Heavy mace 1d8 + 3 (plus an additional +2, +4, or +6 from Divine Might)

Special Attacks
Turn Undead 9/day (plus up to an additional 4 turn attempts when CHA is double-buffed)

Saves
Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +5

Feats
Power Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack) (bonus Human feat)
Extra Turning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#extraTurning) (1st level)
Divine Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineMight) (3rd level)

Skills
Concentration (Con) +6 [4]
Heal (Wis) +6 [4]
Knowledge (religion) +5 [5]
Spellcraft +5 [5]

Equipment
+1 Banded Mail - 1400 gp, 35 lbs.
Heavy Wooden Shield - 7 gp, 10 lbs.
Heavy Mace - 12 gp, 8 lbs.
Holy Symbol - 25 gp, 1 lb.
Wand of Cure Light Wounds - 750 gp, 1 lb. (2194 gp spent, 40 lbs. encumbrance)

Spells (* denotes a domain spell)
0 - Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Magic, Guidance, Read Magic
1 - Bless, Charm Person*, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith
2 - Aid*, Bull's Strength, Eagle's Splendor

Notes
This character is designed to be a warrior and a medic.

Clerics may spontaneously convert any prepared non-domain spells into Cure spells in 3.x, so there's never a reason for a Cleric to prepare such spells. The Wand of CLW will likely be doing most of the healing work, anyways.

Pretty much all the 1st and 2nd level spells are buffing spells, except for Charm Person. Divine Favor (+1 luck bonus to attack and damage rolls, 1 min./level duration) only works on your character, everything else could be cast on anyone in the party.

The Divine Might feat allows you to use a Turn Undead attempt to add to your melee damage. This character has the option to "double buff" its CHA from the Eagle's Splendor spell and the Charm domain granted power. That is the order in which you want to activate them. You'll be at 22 CHA and get +6 to your damage for a minute a day, which is 10 combat rounds. Might be handy if there is a Big Bad Evil Guy in the vicinity.

Permutations
You could swap the 16 stat with any of the 14 stats, if you wanted more HP/better Fort save (Con), better Will save (Wis), or 1 more daily turn attempt (Cha). You could also take 4 of the points in Str and put them in Dex, to get you more Reflex save, better initiative, and better AC.

Also, if you make the armor non-magical, you have enough money to buy a Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds instead of Cure Light Wounds. Check with Org if a Wand of CMW will be OK for this game. Knock your AC down by 1 if you do that. If you want a 14 Dex you should get a Breastplate instead of Banded Mail because of the respective Max Dex Bonuses for those two types of armor.

[Detritus]

OK, I didn't build the Cleric above as a Cloistered Cleric, which is the default Cleric type in Origen's campaign worlds. This would have a fairly dramatic impact on the build -- 4 fewer HP, +1 BAB instead of +2, no shield or heavy armor proficiency, I think the AC would drop by 4 by losing the shield and dropping down to a +1 chain shirt from +1 banded mail. Also, 4 more skills could be maintained at maximum ranks for a 3rd level character. You would need to check with Org before playing the above Cleric as it's written.

I'm working on a simpler build right now -- Half-Orc Barbarian 2/Fighter 1, which I'll post after I'm finished with it, but I need to re-read the house rules...

[Detritus]

Potential Murder Victims:
Dok, 1st level gnome bard.
Gimp, a half-elf sorcerer 1 with an inferiority complex
Human Paladin 1 obnoxiously overbearing about his/her religion.
Half-Elf Druid 1 who is obnoxiously overbearing about nature and the sentient races' place in it.
Pyro, Wizard 1 - Specialist Evoker who is a pyromaniac. I don't think there's a strong race requirement here.
I think a Frenchy-type Cleric by the name of Avec Fromage who has the whole Planning/Undeath Domain thing with Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) might be another possibility as a murder victim.

[Detritus]

Half-Orc Barbarian 2/Fighter 1, AL N

Abilities
STR - 18 [10 points, +4 modifier]
DEX - 16 [10 points, +3 modifier]
CON - 16 [10 points, +3 modifier]
INT - 6 [0 points, -2 modifier]
WIS - 10 [2 points, +0 modifier]
CHA - 6 [0 points, -2 modifier]

HP - 34 (40 in rage)
AC - 19, 17 in rage or after charge, 15 after raging charge, -6 for touch attacks
Initiative - +7
Speed - 30 ft.

BAB - +3
Attacks - +9 masterwork greataxe (up to -3 with Power Attack), +7 grapple
Attacks - Rage or a charge adds +2 to hit, rage + charge adds +4 to hit
Damage - Greataxe 1d12 + 4 (plus an additional +2 in rage, up to +6 with Power Attack)

Special Qualities
Darkvision - Can see up to 60 ft. in total darkness (black & white vision, only)

Orc Blood - For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc.

Fast movement - +10 ft. enhancement bonus to speed if no heavy armor or heavy encumbrance

Uncanny dodge - Retains Dex bonus to AC if flat-footed

Saves
Fort +8 (+10 in rage), Ref +3, Will +0 (+2 in rage)

Feats
Power Attack
Improved Initiative
Weapon Focus (greataxe)

Skills
Pick 2 from the Barbarian skills list and max them out...

Equipment
+1 Breastplate - 1350 gp, 30 lbs.
Masterwork greataxe - 20 gp, 12 lbs.

Notes
This character's tactics more or less boil down to Charge! or Rage! and then whacking something, preferably using Power Attack. I decided to put most everything into the physical stats to reflect this. On a charge, or while raging, you'd be able to hit an AC 19 50% of the time if you did the max -3 on your attack roll for Power Attack, and that isn't too shabby for a 3rd level character.

You don't have much in the way of skill points, and your Reflex and Will saves aren't that great, but as long as you can smack something really hard, it should all be good.

Permutations
You could go straight Bbn 3, you'd lose one feat (I'd pick the Weapon Focus feat to lose, myself), gain 1 hit point, and add +1 to your Reflex and Will saves. You'd also gain Trap Sense +1.

You could also go Fighter 2/Barbarian 1. In this case, you'd lose a hit point and the Uncanny Dodge Bbn class feature, but would get an extra feat.

For equipment, you've got enough money left over that if you wanted to trade your magical armor in for a +1 greataxe, you could do that. It would cost 850 gp to do this (gain 1150 gp for going from +1 breastplate to a regular one, spend 2000 gp to make your masterwork weapon into a +1 weapon). Knock AC down by 1 and increase damage by 1 (masterwork weapons already give a +1 to hit).

Otherwise, you might buy a +1 Cloak of Resistance to help with your saving throws, or just spend the leftover cash on various potions. A huge initial potion investment wouldn't be terribly efficient in a campaign, but for a one-shot it should be fine. Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat, and Enlarge Person might all be worth buying. A +2 Barkskin potion might be OK, also, but as a 2nd level spell they are 6X as expensive as potions for most 1st level spells (Enlarge Person is an exception to this). As always, I encourage you to look through the SRD to see what might grab your fancy.

[Origen]

Okay, folks, I bought my tickets for Texas in May last night.

Anyone else who's coming want a character for this?

[Kalzazz]

I should be coming, so a character could be cool

[Detritus]

Halfling Domain Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) (Conjuration) 3, AL N

Abilities
STR - 6 [0 points, -2 modifier]
DEX - 16 [6 points, +3 modifier]
CON - 16 [10 points, +3 modifier]
INT - 16 [10 points, +3 modifier]
WIS - 14 [6 points, +2 modifier]
CHA - 8 [0 points, -1 modifier]

HP - 21
AC - 14, flat-footed 11, touch 14, +4 w/Mage Armor
Initiative - +3
Speed - 20 ft.

BAB - +1
Attacks -
Attacks -
Damage -

Special Qualities
Summon familiar - Toad (100 gp, +3 hit points)

Saves
Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +6/+8 vs. fear effects

Feats
Scribe Scroll
Extend Spell
Quick Draw

Skills
Concentration +9 [6]
Craft (alchemy) +9 [6]
Knowledge (arcana) +9 [6]
Spellcraft +9 [6]

Equipment
Wand of Enlarge Person (10 charges) - 150 gp
Wand of Ray of Enfeeblement (caster level 2, does 1d6+1 Str damage, 10 charges) - 300 gp
Wand of Color Spray (heightened to 2nd level, 10 charges, Will save DC 13 negates) - 900 gp
Wand of Magic Missile (caster level 7, 4d4+4 damage, 10 charges) - 1050 gp

200 gp left over for everything else

Spells Prepared
0 - Detect Magic x2, Message, Read Magic
1 - Grease, Mage Armor*, Sleep, True Strike
2 - Extended Mage Armor, Mirror Image, Web*

* = Domain Spell

Notes
He's Batman, if a bit shorter, or a rough approximation thereof for a 3rd level character.

[LagomorphPrime]

The Banner Boys: Jim, Slim, Tim, Dim, Whim, Kim, Zim, Vim, Quim, and Him (his momma ran out of ideas at that point)
Halfling Rogue 3, AL N

Abilities
STR - 8 [2 points, -1 modifier]
DEX - 20 [16 points, +5 modifier]
CON - 14 [6 points, +2 modifier]
INT - 10 [2 points, +0 modifier]
WIS - 10 [2 points, +0 modifier]
CHA - 8 [0 points, -1 modifier]

HP - 24
AC - 19 10 + 1(size) + 3(studded leather) + 5(dex)
Flat-footed 14, Touch 16
Initiative - +5
Speed - 20 ft.

BAB - +2
+8 Morningstar 1d6-1 20/x2 B/P
+8 Sickle 1d4-1 20/x2 S
(+6/+6 with TWF)
+9 Dart 1d3-1 20/x2 P

Special Qualities
Trapfinding
Evasion
Trapsense +1
Sneak Attack +2d6

Saves
Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +2/+4 vs fear effects

Feats
1 - Two Weapon Fighting
3 - Weapon Finesse

Skills
Appraise +0
Balance +7 = +5 +2 [tumble]
Bluff -1
Climb +1 = -1 +2 [halfling]
Concentration +2
Diplomacy -1
Disguise -1
Escape Artist +11 = +5 +6
Forgery +0
Gather Information -1
Heal +0
Hide +15 = +5 +6 +4 [small]
Intimidate -1
Jump +3 = -1 +6 +2 [halfling] +2 [tumble] -6 [speed 20]
Listen +8 = +0 +6 +2 [halfling]
Move Silently +13 = +5 +6 +2 [halfling]
Ride +5
Search +6
Sense Motive +0
Spot +6
Survival +0
Swim -1
Tumble +13 = +5 +6 +2 [jump]
Use Rope +5


Equipment
Studded Leather Armor 25g
Morningstar 8g
Sickle 6g
Dart x2 .5g
Caltrops 1g
Sunrod 2g
Smokestick x2 20g
Potion: Shield of Faith +4 600g
Potion: Cat's Grace 300g
Potion: Barkskin +2 300g
Oil: Magic Weapon x4 200g
Feather Token: Tree 400g
Elixir of Sneaking 250g
Elixir of Hiding 250g
Potion: Cure Moderate Wounds (2d8+3) 300g
Potion Belt 1g
Backpack 2g

19.25lbs
2685.5g spent

Notes
A rather ugly family of nasty halflings that makes their living as a band of raiders and mercenaries.

Math always gets wacky with small characters, hopefully I got the gear weight right.

(edit: Left out Trapfinding)

[Origen]

Excellent. That is, I believe, the first character officially submitted that is going to be played in the game, Lag.

Detritus provides some sweet builds. I hope people avail you of your skill, Det.

[happykat]

NONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I WANTED A HALFLING ROGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damnit. Damn. It.

[LagomorphPrime]

You snooze you lose. :)

[Archer]

This is the character I posted up on the other thread. Feel free to use it any way you care to: playtesting, one of the murdered people in the beginning, as a character of your own, something to laugh at, etc. Also if anyone who is better at mini-maxing than I am wants to make suggestions, I'm interested in hearing...especially the skills since I didn't put any work into them.



Barbarian: Boar Totem
A barbarian dedicated to the boar totem does not gain the standard fast movement, uncanny dodge, trap sense, and improved uncanny dodge barbarian class features, and instead gains the following abilities.

When raging, a 1st-level boar-totem barbarian is treated as having the Diehard feat, even if he doesn't meet the normal prerequisites.

At 3rd level and higher, a boar-totem barbarian's rage lasts for 2 rounds longer than normal.

--------

Arctic Dwarf
+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -4 Dexterity, -2 Charisma

Icecunning: Arctic dwarves can apply their stonecunning benefits to structures and natural features made of ice, as well as those made of stone.

+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds: even tuxedo-wearing kobolds. This trait replaces the dwarf's racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs.

+2 racial bonus on Appraise and Craft checks related to items made of ice.

Cold Endurance: Members of arctic races have a +4 racial bonus on Fortitude saves made to resist the effects of cold weather or exposure.

----------

Storm Giant Bloodline
+2 on Climb checks, Power Attack, Strength +1, -20% xp penalty

----------

Name: John McClane
Alternate names: Bohn, Cohn, Dohn, Fohn, Hohn, Lohn, Mohn, Nohn, Vohn, Gohn
Chaotic Neutral
Barbarian level 3

STR (17) 20
DEX (13) 9
CON (16) 18
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA (8) 6

The idea is that he can Rage for 11 rounds. By that time combat is over and he's dead. But the next clone will be able to Rage for 11 rounds himself. (Assuming he can stay awake and become tangible.)

Feats:
Diehard (with a vengeance)
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave

Skills (aka the Not Left Behind package):
Swim (6) 11
Climb (5) 12
Jump (7) 12

Equipment:

Greataxe +1 (2320gp)
Chainmail (150gp)
Everburning torch (110gp) I see a fire that doesn't go out as being necessary for an arctic race adventurer :)
Backpack (2gp)
Belt Pouch (1gp)
Waterskin (1gp)
Guard dog (25gp) (Dog and his 9 litter-mates are all named "Dog")

That leaves 91gp so I'll get this stuff and carry the rest in bribe money.
bedroll 1sp
5 Fishhooks and line 5sp
chalk 1cp
5 empty sacks (eternal optimist) 5sp
food for self and Dog 5 days worth each ?sp
Canvas (2 sq. yd.) so I don't get dirty when I sit down 2sp
Potion of Hide from undead 50gp (or substitute Cure Light Wounds but the Undead thing sounds funnier given the horror setting)

[Archer]

Is there a real reason, other than personal preferrence, to avoid taking a bloodline in a one shot game?

[Wook]

Bang for buck. You're not getting anything near worth the cost you're paying. Promise.

[Archer]

Bang for buck. You're not getting anything near worth the cost you're paying. Promise.

Well, I'm looking at it like this: if you take a major bloodline but don't take a level of bloodline, your only penalty is -20% exp. But the bonus for a major bloodline is most of what you would get from leveling up anyway except that you get to use it right away (feat, bonus to a skill, plus one to a characteristic).

In a game like this which builds up a PC body count rather than the PC's experience level, are you realistically going to level up in mid-scenario? I'm thinking not unless your experience carries over from one clone to the next and I don't recall anyone suggesting doing that. So having a major bloodline looks to me like its not a disadvantage.

If you take an intermediate bloodline, you get a bonus but no penalties at all unless you make it from 3rd to 6th level.

[Origen]

Your bloodline level has no hit dice, no skill points, no BAB, no save bonuses and none of the perks that come from an actual level. If you have a Con bonus, you lost those hit points from the hit die you would have gained, too.

It's effectively a +1 ECL template at 3rd level.

It's a glass jaw. Trust me.

[Archer]

Your bloodline level has no hit dice, no skill points, no BAB, no save bonuses and none of the perks that come from an actual level. If you have a Con bonus, you lost those hit points from the hit die you would have gained, too.

It's effectively a +1 ECL template at 3rd level.

It's a glass jaw. Trust me.

Ah, I misunderstood. For some reason I "remembered" you got the third bloodline trait even though you didn't take the level of bloodline but didn't get the 4th level traits and above.

I'm going to go off in the corner now and read up on the rules for various things that don't come up often.

[LagomorphPrime]

The only bloodline that would be worth taking is an Intermediate one. And all you'd get is a +2 skill bonus. Some pretty good twinkery really, I may hafta edit my character. :sasmokin:

I could add the Green Dragon for +2 to Move Silent or the White Dragon for +2 to Hide. Hmmmmmm....

[Detritus]

NONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I WANTED A HALFLING ROGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damnit. Damn. It.
Y'know, I forgot about your request for a rogue build way back when I posted the first couple builds in this thread, HK, and I'm truly sorry about that. I seem to recall even sending an outline, but then I got busy with other stuff.

Is there any chance that there can be some horse-trading here, Laggy? This screw-up is at least partially my fault, if not entirely.

[Archer]

The only bloodline that would be worth taking is an Intermediate one. And all you'd get is a +2 skill bonus. Some pretty good twinkery really, I may hafta edit my character. :sasmokin:

I could add the Green Dragon for +2 to Move Silent or the White Dragon for +2 to Hide. Hmmmmmm....

I'd go for the White Dragon. Hiding sounds like a good strategy. ;)

While you're twinking, you could be a water halfling. You get +2 CON, +1 attack roll against fire creatures, and a better swimming ability in exchange for looking funny and -2 penalty on all saving throws against fire spells.

[LagomorphPrime]

Heh heh. While I'd LIKE to take the water subrace and the dragon heritage, I already felt kinda guilty about the min/maxing on the first pass at the character. I know that it's encouraged in cases like this, but I get uncomfortable when things start to reach a certain point on my end.

As for the horse trading for hk, I don't see why there can't be 2 halfling rogues in the party. We can help eachother get mad flanking bonuses and sneak attacks. There are gonna be what, like 6 or 8 people playing? 2 rogues ain't gonna hurt nothin'. :)

And actually, upon further reflection, if Origen doesn't mind I think I AM gonna tack on the Green Dragon Intermediate Bloodline (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedBloodlines.html#dragon-green)and the Water Halfling (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedElementalVariants.html#water-halflings)subrace.

Of course, if we wanted to get REALLY twinky (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedGestalt.html)...

[Origen]

Heh heh. While I'd LIKE to take the water subrace and the dragon heritage, I already felt kinda guilty about the min/maxing on the first pass at the character. I know that it's encouraged in cases like this, but I get uncomfortable when things start to reach a certain point on my end.

No worries. You're 3rd level characters, and I'm not really worried about CR. The only reason I'm watching over things this carefully is that I don't want people who aren't making their own characters to feel too overshadowed.

As for the horse trading for hk, I don't see why there can't be 2 halfling rogues in the party. We can help eachother get mad flanking bonuses and sneak attacks. There are gonna be what, like 6 or 8 people playing? 2 rogues ain't gonna hurt nothin'. :)

I see no reason why there can't be 2 halfling rogues in the group. And yes, if played properly, they can help each other flank.

And actually, upon further reflection, if Origen doesn't mind I think I AM gonna tack on the Green Dragon Intermediate Bloodline (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedBloodlines.html#dragon-green)and the Water Halfling (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedElementalVariants.html#water-halflings)subrace.

The SRD recommends a +1 ECL on any adventure where aquatic and non-aquatic races will be in a water-based situation. There are going to be such circumstances in this adventure, so I'm going to go with that ruling. You can do it, but you'll be a 2nd level character with a +1 ECL race.

The only bonus you're going to gain from the green dragon bloodline is a +2 to Move Silently, yes?

Of course, if we wanted to get REALLY twinky (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedGestalt.html)...

I've played in Gestalt games. At 3rd level, Gestalt doesn't particularly bother me, but part of my reason for running the game is to give people who haven't played 3rd Edition an idea of what it feels like.

Gestalt needlessly complicates things.

So no, Gestalt is out.

[LagomorphPrime]

As I read it yeah, the only benefit at this level from doing that with the bloodline is the +2 to Move Silently.

I'll drop the aquatic thing then, don't want any LA's.

And I would NEVER seriously suggest gestalt, for any occassion. That stuff is stupidly twink, IMHO.

[Archer]

Trying to make an abusive archer (which is almost a contradiction in terms) (for someone else to use). If anybody would look at what I have here and tweak it. Or start over again if it doesn't look like there's much to work with.

I figure at level 3 that meat shields will be more popular than spellcasters. Having someone who can deal damage at a distance might be welcome.


STR - 14 [6 points, +2 modifier]
DEX - 20 [16 points, +5 modifier]
CON - 12 [6 points, +1 modifier]
INT - 8 [0 points, -1 modifier]
WIS - 8 [0 points, -1 modifier]
CHA - 8 [0 points, -1 modifier]

Chaotic Neutral
elf

Ranger 2 / Fighter 1
Favored enemy: Undead
Combat style:archery

skill points 20+5+1 Not sure how to distribute these 26 points
Hide dex
Move Silently dex
Use Rope dex
Listen wis
Spot wis
Search int
Swim str
Handle Animal cha (for the dogs)

Feats: not sure here either
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot (from being a level 2 ranger)
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus: composite longbow


Equipment
masterwork Greataxe 320gp
masterwork Chain shirt 250gp
masterwork composite longbow (+2 STR modifier) 500 gp
60 arrows 3gp
Cure light wounds (potion) 50gp
3 Caltrops 3gp
Grappling hook 1gp
Rope, hemp (50 ft.) 1gp
Waterskin 1gp
Backpack 2gp
Pouch, belt 1gp
Antitoxin (vial) 50gp
Holy water (flask) 25gp
4 Dog, guard (trained for fighting) 100gp I figure these might help keep from getting mobbed.


That would leave 1394gp. I could upgrade a weapon to +1 I suppose.

In the game, can you spend your cash to help other people in the party? I mean, you can get a Wand of Summon monster I and a pile of scrolls for that amount of money to help out your bard/cleric/wizard/sorceror.

[happykat]

Det, Laggy.....Big Kisses!

I did have my heart set on a rogue. Stay tuned!

[ldygmr1]

Det, Laggy.....Big Kisses!

I did have my heart set on a rogue. Stay tuned!



Make it something little. I can make you my pet.
*laughs*


And I will pet you, and keep you clean, and I will call you George......

[Wook]

Sir Idiot, (Idgit, Fool, Dummy, Dull, Slow, Witless, Git, Tool, ADHD)

Human
Ranger 1/Fighter 2

Str -18 (16pts)
Dex -12 (4 pts)
Con -14 (6 pts)
Int -10 (2 pts)
Wis -8
Cha -8

AC: 18 (11 touch, 17 ff)
HP: 25

Fort: +7
Ref: +3
Wil: -1

Feats:
H - Animal Affinity
1 - Mounted Combat
R1 - Track
F1 - Ridge By Attack
F2 - Spirited Charge
3 - WF: Lance

Ride - 6 ranks + 1 attribute +2 feat (+2 to stay in saddle from item)
Handle Animal - 6 ranks -1 attribute +2 feat
Survival - 4 ranks -1 attribute
KN: Nature - 4 ranks 0 attribute
Intimidate - 4 ranks -1 atttribute

Favored Enemy Humanoid (You choose)
Animal Empathy= +/- 0

Gear:
Heavy Warhorse - 400gp
Chain Barding - 600gp
Military Saddle - 20gp
Saddlebags - 4gp

Breastplate - 200gp
Large Steel Shield -20 gp
Masterwork Lance - 310 gp
Masterwork Greatsword - 350gp

3 ea potions of:
Magic Weapon
Sanctuary
Magic Armor

Leaves 346 discretionary gold.

Here's how this works... You see a target, lower your lance, and charge it. Then after hitting it you suffer the counter attack, roll 1d4, and do it again that many rounds later. Without the horse you suck. Don't do it.

Charge:
Lance - 10' reach - 3d8+12 damage - +11 att - -2 AC (so 16)
Greatsword - 5' reach - 4d6+12 damage - +10 att - -2AC (so 16)
Add +1 hit/+3 damage if the magic weapon oil has been applied.
Against medium sized and smaller opponents you'll also have a +1 bonus to attack from high ground.

[Wook]

Lord Origen, (Superfluous, Unnessecary, Useless, 5th wheel, redundant, Outdated, antiquated, Obsolete, Unneeded)

Gnome
Bard

(Pauses to consider the wisdom of finishing this...)

Str - 6 (0 pts)
Dex - 16 (10 pts)
Con - 12 (2pts)
Int - 12 (4 pts)
Wis - 10 (2 pts)
Cha - 16 (10 pts)

:sawink2:

[Origen]

Bastard.

(filler)

[Wook]

Bastard.

(filler)

Such is my birthright. I can only hope to do it proper justice.

[Archer]

I usually don't play a wizard. Would anyone like to take a shot at either a full writeup or at the least an abusive 2700gp equipment list?

[Detritus]

I usually don't play a wizard. Would anyone like to take a shot at either a full writeup or at the least an abusive 2700gp equipment list?
http://forum.criticalfumble.net/showpost.php?p=57942&postcount=28

It's built off of 32 points, so I'd probably knock down the Wis from 14 to 10 to get down to 28 points. Subtract 2 from the Will save, and you're ready to go.

[Archer]

http://forum.criticalfumble.net/showpost.php?p=57942&postcount=28

It's built off of 32 points, so I'd probably knock down the Wis from 14 to 10 to get down to 28 points. Subtract 2 from the Will save, and you're ready to go.

Thanks. And the equipment list looks nice.


Equipment
Wand of Enlarge Person (10 charges) - 150 gp
Wand of Ray of Enfeeblement (caster level 2, does 1d6+1 Str damage, 10 charges) - 300 gp
Wand of Color Spray (heightened to 2nd level, 10 charges, Will save DC 13 negates) - 900 gp
Wand of Magic Missile (caster level 7, 4d4+4 damage, 10 charges) - 1050 gp



That's 300 gp left over for everything else

Scrolls: 125gp
Charm person
expeditious retreat
Protection from Evil
Shield
Burning Hands

3 Cure light wounds (potion) 150gp
Acid (flask) 10gp
Sunrod 2gp
Backpack 2gp
Caltrops 1gp
Flint and steel 1gp
Waterskin 1gp
Spell component pouch 5gp
dagger 2gp
sling and 20 bullets 2sp
Bedroll 1sp
trail rations 1 day 5sp
2 fishhook and line 2sp

Known spells:
Grease
Mage Armor
Sleep
True Strike
Charm person
expeditious retreat
Protection from Evil
Shield
Burning Hands
Mount (aka extra trail rations)

Mirror Image
Web

[happykat]

Methinks I may change my mind about the rogue. I want the party to be diverse.

:shrug:

I'm still deciding.

[Origen]

Methinks I may change my mind about the rogue. I want the party to be diverse.

In a one-shot, party balance or diversity is less important than playing what you WANT to play.

[Detritus]

In a one-shot, party balance or diversity is less important than playing what you WANT to play.
You lie like a fly with a booger in its eye!

[Archer]

In a one-shot, party balance or diversity is less important than playing what you WANT to play.

Some people would take that as a challenge. :D

You know, you can make a ranger/paladin/barbarian with three favored enemies. If you make his race a dwarf, you also get the +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids.

[Origen]

You know, you can make a ranger/paladin/barbarian with three favored enemies. If you make his race a dwarf, you also get the +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids.

You could play a ranger 1/paladin of freedom 1/barbarian 2, or a ranger 1/paladin (LG)/ex-barbarian 1, or a ranger 1/paladin of tyranny 1/ex-barbarian 1, or a ranger 1/paladin of slaughter 1/barbarian 1.

It's third level, hoss.

Knock yourself out.

How are you figuring three favored enemies?

[Archer]

You could play a ranger 1/paladin of freedom 1/barbarian 2, or a ranger 1/paladin (LG)/ex-barbarian 1, or a ranger 1/paladin of tyranny 1/ex-barbarian 1, or a ranger 1/paladin of slaughter 1/barbarian 1.

It's third level, hoss.

Knock yourself out.

How are you figuring three favored enemies?

I was thinking specifically of the paladin of freedom option though the other paladin variant would work as well.


As for favored enemies, ranger gets a favored enemy. And...

The paladin who takes an active role in hunting her foul enemies must give up her defensive powers.
Gain
Favored enemy (as ranger; may only select aberrations, dragons, giants, monstrous humanoids, evil outsiders, or undead).
Lose
Lay on hands, turn undead, remove disease. (In other words, nothing for a one shot at this character level.)


A barbarian who prefers crafty hunting over pure ferocity might choose to exchange his rage ability for certain ranger class features.
Gain
Favored enemy (as ranger); archery combat style, improved archery combat style, and archery combat style mastery (as ranger).
Lose
Rage, greater rage, indomitable will, tireless rage, mighty rage


That's three favored enemies.

You could, for example, try to cover all the bases

Favored Enemy: human (or dominant species in the area)
Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid
Favored Enemy: Undead
and going with dwarf gives +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids.

Though its certainly a gamble to try to get lucky on favored enemy by giving up on Rage (assuming you are primarily melee rather than ranged fighting).

But if you are planning to get tricky, you can squeeze an extra feat out of it as well:

A ranger might forgo training in weapon combat in exchange for the ability to take animal form and move swiftly through the woodlands.
Gain
Wild shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), fast movement (as barbarian).
Lose
Combat style, improved combat style, combat style mastery. (You already have these potentials twice so losing them once means nothing.)

You already have fast movement as a barbarian and the fast movements don't stack. But you can lose one of them by taking a totem for your barbarian class.

At 1st level, an ape-totem barbarian gains a climb speed equal to one-half his base land speed (round down to the nearest 5-foot interval). For instance, a human, elf, half-elf, or half-orc ape-totem barbarian has a climb speed of 15 feet, while a dwarf, gnome, or halfling ape-totem barbarian has a climb speed of 10 feet.

or 1st-level bear-totem barbarian gains Toughness as a bonus feat.

or 1st-level dragon-totem barbarian gains Blind-Fight as a bonus feat.

or 1st level, a lion-totem barbarian gains Run as a bonus feat.


Not that this is optimizing the character. But the thought of playing a ranger who isn't a quite a ranger who is a paladin who isn't quite a paladin who is a barbarian who isn't quite a barbarian is somewhat amusing.

[Origen]

That's three favored enemies.

You could, for example, try to cover all the bases

Favored Enemy: human (or dominant species in the area)
Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid
Favored Enemy: Undead
and going with dwarf gives +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids.

Though its certainly a gamble to try to get lucky on favored enemy by giving up on Rage.

The way that is generally interpreted is that you can't give up abilities you haven't GAINED yet. The barbarian could give up rage for another favored enemy at 1st level, but a paladin can't "give up" lay on hands until 2nd level, nor turn undead until fourth, and consequently can't gain anything in exchange for those abilities until he actually "loses" them.

It's the same with the ranger. He can't "lose" his combat style until he would normally have gained it.

Not that this is optimizing the character. But the thought of playing a ranger who isn't a quite a ranger who is a paladin who isn't quite a paladin who is a barbarian who isn't quite a barbarian is somewhat amusing.

Actually, I like seeing how other people's minds work when they build characters, so I'm glad you're doing this. My mind gets calcified during character creation, and I'd never thought of these suggestions, before.

None of the suggested abilities are gamebreaking, and most of them just exchange one advantage for another. Rage gives you +2 to-hit and damage against anything, but only works once a day. Favored enemy gives you +2 to damage and some minor skills, and works all the time, but only works against certain creatures.

[Archer]

The way that is generally interpreted is that you can't give up abilities you haven't GAINED yet. The barbarian could give up rage for another favored enemy at 1st level, but a paladin can't "give up" lay on hands until 2nd level, nor turn undead until fourth, and consequently can't gain anything in exchange for those abilities until he actually "loses" them.

It's the same with the ranger. He can't "lose" his combat style until he would normally have gained it.

It makes sense to interpret it like that...but that's not what the rules actually say. :naughty:



Actually, I like seeing how other people's minds work when they build characters, so I'm glad you're doing this. My mind gets calcified during character creation, and I'd never thought of these suggestions, before.



Thanks, I'm enjoying messing around with it. I've been hoping other people would throw out some ideas. I really enjoyed looking over the couple of builds that have been posted.

And having 2700gp to spend all at once is exciting. In all the campaigns I've played it always seemed the treasure has been stingy or the campaign abruptly ended when I got some money or there was never anything available that was worth buying.

[Archer]

Actually, I like seeing how other people's minds work when they build characters, so I'm glad you're doing this. My mind gets calcified during character creation, and I'd never thought of these suggestions, before.


You know, with that multiple favored enemy thing, someone could instead use the optional "Favored Environment" rules. Obviously you wouldn't want to spread a serious character across three classes. But you could do it for two and pick the two environments where the campaign is likely to play its early levels like "Hills" and "Temperate Forest".

Or like for this one shot where you mentioned there'd be water adventures, someone could pick "Aquatic Environment" as their favored "enemy".

[Origen]

It makes sense to interpret it like that...but that's not what the rules actually say. :naughty:

Heh.

If you'd like to explain to me how you can give up an ability you haven't gained yet, I'm all ears.

Thanks, I'm enjoying messing around with it. I've been hoping other people would throw out some ideas. I really enjoyed looking over the couple of builds that have been posted.

As do I.

And having 2700gp to spend all at once is exciting. In all the campaigns I've played it always seemed the treasure has been stingy or the campaign abruptly ended when I got some money or there was never anything available that was worth buying.

Yeah, I think it's fun, too.

You know, with that multiple favored enemy thing, someone could instead use the optional "Favored Environment" rules. Obviously you wouldn't want to spread a serious character across three classes. But you could do it for two and pick the two environments where the campaign is likely to play its early levels like "Hills" and "Temperate Forest".

That actually wouldn't bother me in a longterm campaign because one of the things that bothers me about the ranger's abilities is how limited and specific they are.

Or like for this one shot where you mentioned there'd be water adventures, someone could pick "Aquatic Environment" as their favored "enemy".

I said that there would be places where waterbreathing would be an incredible advantage. There isn't going to be an underwater portion of the adventure.

[Archer]

I said that there would be places where waterbreathing would be an incredible advantage. There isn't going to be an underwater portion of the adventure.

The description for the ability is "on or under water". I'd take the intent to be underwater, on boats, or just wading chest-deep.

YMMV.

[Origen]

The description for the ability is "on or under water". I'd take the intent to be underwater, on boats, or just wading chest-deep.

YMMV.

The ability says "sea, ocean (on or under water)":

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#favoredEnemyVariantFavore dEnvironment

Nice try, though.

[LagomorphPrime]

What makes the money fun to spend is that we know it's a one shot with high mortality. So one shot items are suddenly totally worth the money. I've always been stingy with consumables. Even in WoW I never pop potions. But under these circumstances it's encouraged to go nuts with everything you have because tomorrow doesn't matter. I look forward to playing.

[LagomorphPrime]

Rotting Robby
3rd lvl Ghoul

Str -20 (16pts +2 racial)
Dex -16 (6 pts +2 racial)
Con - - (0 pts)
Int -12 (2 pts +2 racial @ 3rd lvl)
Wis -10 (0 pts +2 racial)
Cha -12 (4 pts)

AC: 15 (+2 nat, +3 dex)
HP: 27

Fort: +0
Ref: +3
Wil: +3

Feats:
H - Toughness
1 - Improved Initiative

Balance +4 (1 tank)
Climb +10 (5 ranks)
Hide +8 (5 ranks)
Jump +10 (5 ranks)
Move Silent +8 (5 ranks)
Spot +5 (5 ranks)

Paralysis (Ex) - 1 round on touch, DC 12

2 claws 1d3, bite 1d4
Melee attack +6

+2 Turn Resistance

Gear:
I'd recommend spending lots of cash on pots and buff items. Anything that raises his Cha raises the save DC of the paralysis. He's proficient with simple weapons only and no armor or shields. Plus all of the undead goodies:
Immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and disease. Not subject to extra damage from critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damange, energy drain, or death from massive damage. When an undead is reduced to 0 hit points, it is immediately destroyed.

Hee hee.

[Archer]

The ability says "sea, ocean (on or under water)":

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#favoredEnemyVariantFavore dEnvironment

Nice try, though.


To paraphrase Ross Perot, "I don't have a dog in this race" since you aren't my DM. ;)

But to expand upon my view of the matter, the idea of a familiar environment is that you are familiar with the environment. For fighting in the water, you have the extra weight of soggy clothes and the slower and different way your weapon moves through the water to account for. If you are fighting in the forest, you deal with low hanging branches, exposed roots, fallen tree trunks. In the prairie, you have gopher holes and sacred indian burial grounds. In the mountains, you try not to fall off.

If you are fighting in a pond or river that runs through a forest, your applicable environment which is affecting you is the water, not the trees and leaves. If you are fighting on a boat that is shooting the rapids through a mountain's canyon, you're concerned with how the water is pitching the boat around, not about whether you are going to stumble over one of the rocks on the shore.

If your main concern is about how steady the boat is or how to efficiently fight in the water, there's not a heck of a lot of difference between ocean water and fresh water. At least not nearly as much difference as there is between being in the water or upon the dry ground.

[Mouser]

Lord Origen, (Superfluous, Unnessecary, Useless, 5th wheel, redundant, Outdated, antiquated, Obsolete, Unneeded)

Gnome
Bard

(Pauses to consider the wisdom of finishing this...)

Str - 6 (0 pts)
Dex - 16 (10 pts)
Con - 12 (2pts)
Int - 12 (4 pts)
Wis - 10 (2 pts)
Cha - 16 (10 pts)

:sawink2:


You're gonna need more hp...

And a better AC...

:D

[Origen]

But to expand upon my view of the matter, the idea of a familiar environment is that you are familiar with the environment. For fighting in the water, you have the extra weight of soggy clothes and the slower and different way your weapon moves through the water to account for. If you are fighting in the forest, you deal with low hanging branches, exposed roots, fallen tree trunks. In the prairie, you have gopher holes and sacred indian burial grounds. In the mountains, you try not to fall off. If you are fighting in a pond or river that runs through a forest, your applicable environment which is affecting you is the water, not the trees and leaves. If you are fighting on a boat that is shooting the rapids through a mountain's canyon, you're concerned with how the water is pitching the boat around, not about whether you are going to stumble over one of the rocks on the shore. If your main concern is about how steady the boat is or how to efficiently fight in the water, there's not a heck of a lot of difference between ocean water and fresh water. At least not nearly as much difference as there is between being in the water or upon the dry ground.

Right, which is why there is another terrain called "Marsh - bog, moor, swamp."

Keep trying.

[Archer]

Right, which is why there is another terrain called "Marsh - bog, moor, swamp."

Keep trying.

No thanks. We have differing opinions on this. I don't see rivers, lakes and ponds as being as similar to bogs, moors, and swamps. If that's your call, hey, you're the DM.

[Origen]

No thanks. We have differing opinions on this. I don't see rivers, lakes and ponds as being as similar to bogs, moors, and swamps.

So you're marching through a "Forest, cold or temperate" when suddenly, you fall into a river! You're in "Aquatic sea, ocean (on or under water)" (we'll just ignore the whole "sea or ocean part" and assume that anything deeper than your shoulders is aquatic. This will encourage us to play halfling rangers because, hey, it might be two feet of running water, but it's still over THEIR shoulders.

Then, you crawl up onto the shore, and it's a small sandy beach. Hello, "Desert, temperate or warm badlands, sandy desert!" (I'll just mark out that annoying "desert" part.)

What if you're standing on a boulder? Does that mean you're now in "Hills rugged terrain up to 2,000 feet elevation"?

[Archer]

So you're marching through a "Forest, cold or temperate" when suddenly, you fall into a river! You're in "Aquatic sea, ocean (on or under water)" (we'll just ignore the whole "sea or ocean part" and assume that anything deeper than your shoulders is aquatic. This will encourage us to play halfling rangers because, hey, it might be two feet of running water, but it's still over THEIR shoulders.



From your previous post I took your comment to mean that falling into a river would qualify the PC for being in a "Marsh - bog, moor, swamp" despite the fact that one of the river examples I mentioned was "shooting the rapids through a mountain's canyon".

Did I misunderstand your statement?

I don't personally have a problem with the DM deciding that walking through fine sand on a beach that sucks your feet down is similar terrain to walking through a dune in the desert where the sand sucks your feet down despite the differences in temperture. Or that being on a boat in river rapids is similar to being on an ocean-going boat in a storm. Or that being up to your shoulders in the water of the ocean is similar to being up to your shoulders in freshwater water.

I assume those kinds of decisions are up to the DM since the website doesn't go into any depth of detail on how the ability is supposed to work. And going beyond that, the DM can choose to not allow the option at all.

I personally can't imagine that the DM is supposed to look at a blob of territory on a map and classify the entire area as one type of terrain regardless of what type of terrain actually happens to be the feet of the PCs. But I've seen odder things written into games so I suppose its possible.

I think we've established that if each of us were DMs that we'd each have a different take on how the power is supposed to work. But since only one of us is actually a DM and we are unlikely to ever play in a game together much less actually use the rule in question, what the heck are you complaining about?

[Origen]

I think we've established that if each of us were DMs that we'd each have a different take on how the power is supposed to work. But since only one of us is actually a DM and we are unlikely to ever play in a game together much less actually use the rule in question, what the heck are you complaining about?

It seems to me that you're still here talking to me while I'm still here talking to you.

Does that mean you're complaining, too?

Or is it just DIFFERENT when it's you?

From your previous post I took your comment to mean that falling into a river would qualify the PC for being in a "Marsh - bog, moor, swamp" despite the fact that one of the river examples I mentioned was "shooting the rapids through a mountain's canyon". Did I misunderstand your statement?

Well, according to you, since it's deep water, it's an aquatic terrain if you fall out of the boat, an aquatic terrain if you're in the boat, and a mountainous terrain if you're flying ten feet above the water.

I never said a river would be a marsh or bog. I was simply pointing out that (a) the description of aquatic mentions large bodies of water, like seas or oceans, as an example, (b) you left out those words and focused on the parenthetical comment as if it were the entire description, and (c) there are other large bodies of water that fit YOUR qualifications while still being listed as examples of other environments.

I don't personally have a problem with the DM deciding that walking through fine sand on a beach that sucks your feet down is similar terrain to walking through a dune in the desert where the sand sucks your feet down despite the differences in temperture. Or that being on a boat in river rapids is similar to being on an ocean-going boat in a storm. Or that being up to your shoulders in the water of the ocean is similar to being up to your shoulders in freshwater water. I assume those kinds of decisions are up to the DM since the website doesn't go into any depth of detail on how the ability is supposed to work. And going beyond that, the DM can choose to not allow the option at all. I personally can't imagine that the DM is supposed to look at a blob of territory on a map and classify the entire area as one type of terrain regardless of what type of terrain actually happens to be the feet of the PCs. But I've seen odder things written into games so I suppose its possible.

Or, you could just admit you're wrong, which is the easiest option by far.

;)

[Mouser]

Or, you could just admit you're wrong, which is the easiest option by far.

;)

And lose to a Bard?

Would you?

[Origen]

And lose to a Bard?

Would you?

Fair point.

.... wait.

[Archer]

It seems to me that you're still here talking to me while I'm still here talking to you.



It seems like to me that I clearly indicated that I no longer wished to discuss the issue several posts ago and you followed that up with snark directed at me.

But if going away from your D&D thread is the only thing that that will convince you that I no longer wish to discuss this issue, I will quit posting on the thread.

[Detritus]

Back to characters, try this one on for size. It's a double variant for the one wizard level -- a Battle Domain wizard that has subbed out Scribe Scroll + Wizard bonus feats and subbed in Fighter bonus feats at 1st level + 5th/10th/15th/20th:

Wiggedy Wak
Ziggedy Zak
Jiggedy Jak
Higgedy Hak
Kliggedy Klak
Shiggedy Shak
Miggedy Mak
Friggedy Frak
Yiggedy Yak
Briggedy Brak

Human Fighter 2/Domain Wizard 1 (Battle Domain), AL - N

Variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) - Swap out Scribe Scroll/Wizard bonus feats, swap in Fighter bonus feats

Abilities
STR - 16 [10, +3 bonus] (18 when large)
CON - 14 [6, +2 bonus]
DEX - 14 [6, +2 bonus] (12 when large)
INT - 12 [4, +1 bonus]
WIS - 10 [2]
CHA - 8 [0, -1 penalty]

Initiative - +6
Speed - 30 ft.

HP - 36
AC (medium) - 16, 12 touch, 14 flat-footed, 22/12/14 in Troglodyte form
AC (large) - 14, 10 touch, 13 flat-footed, 20/10/13 in Troglodyte form
BAB//Grapple - +2//+5 medium/+10 large
Attack - +7 greatsword
Damage (medium) - 2d6 + 4
Damage (large) - 3d6 + 6

Saves
Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +2

Feats
Toughness x3 (1, bonus Human feat, 3)
Power Attack (bonus Ftr 1)
Improved Initiative (bonus Ftr 2)
Weapon Focus (greatsword) (bonus Wiz 1)

Skills
Climb +7 [5 ranks]
Jump +7 [5]
Ride +7 [5]
Swim +7 [5]
Spellcraft +5 [4]

Equipment
Masterwork Greatsword - 350 gp, 8 lbs.
Masterwork Chain Shirt - 250 gp, 25 lbs.
Alter Self Scroll x6 - 900 gp <-- Use it for nabbing that sweet +6 Troglodyte NAC
Wand of Enlarge Person - 750 gp
Potion Cure Light Wounds x4 - 200 gp
Summoned Familiar, Toad - 100 gp

150 gp for mundane adventuring equipment

Spells
0 - Daze, Detect Magic x2, Read Magic (20% arcane spell failure chance)
1 - True Strike x3 (no somatic component = no ASF chance)

[happykat]

Det, you're da' man!

Can I have that Wizard?

[Detritus]

Det, you're da' man!

Can I have that Wizard?
Sure thing.

[Origen]

It seems like to me that I clearly indicated that I no longer wished to discuss the issue several posts ago and you followed that up with snark directed at me.

And God knows, snark is SO out of place on this forum. I can see why you thought that my mild snark completely crossed the line.

Should I be beaten or flogged, in your opinion?

But if going away from your D&D thread is the only thing that that will convince you that I no longer wish to discuss this issue, I will quit posting on the thread.

Or you could simply stop arguing with me, which is a lot easier. But if you prefer to dramatically take your toys and go home, I certainly can't stop you.

[Archer]

And God knows, snark is SO out of place on this forum. I can see why you thought that my mild snark completely crossed the line.

Should I be beaten or flogged, in your opinion?


Both. :)

Hey, its very simple from my point of view. I was here to chit-chat about your D&D game. I'm not trying to improve the world in this forum or to promote my political philosophy.

Snark is unpleasant, at best, but its something that people have to put up with in the general forum if they want to express an opinion on some meaningful subject. This forum isn't full of meaningful subjects. This thread is chit-chatting about your D&D game. If you can't extend some common courtesy to me in chit-chatting about your game, I don't particularly want to chat about it with you. Its not worth me getting upset for x number of hours because you decide to be an ass about something that I'd already accepted as being a perfectly fine as a way to run your campaign.

You indicated that the only way that you'd stop harrassing me on the subject is for me to either agree with you or stop posting. I'll not agree with you and I've seen no indication that you are willing to extend any common courtesy to anyone who disagrees with you after you've got it in your head to start sniping at them.

You can imply that I'm being juvenile about this but there's only one person's behavior here who could honestly be characterized as being less than mature. Hint: its not me.

I've really enjoyed writing on this thread. If you're willing to let that one subject drop and to try to make chatting about your game a pleasant experience rather than an unpleasant one, I'd be more than willing to come back and post some more. Otherwise, I can go play WoW and have a better time.

[Origen]

Both. :)

Only if you're the one wielding the whip, big guy.

Hey, its very simple from my point of view. I was here to chit-chat about your D&D game. I'm not trying to improve the world in this forum or to promote my political philosophy.

Neither am I.

I'm glad we agree on that.

Snark is unpleasant, at best, but its something that people have to put up with in the general forum if they want to express an opinion on some meaningful subject. This forum isn't full of meaningful subjects. This thread is chit-chatting about your D&D game. If you can't extend some common courtesy to me in chit-chatting about your game, I don't particularly want to chat about it with you. Its not worth me getting upset for x number of hours because you decide to be an ass about something that I'd already accepted as being a perfectly fine as a way to run your campaign.

Soooooo, you're still here arguing with me about why, exactly?

Oh, that's right. Because you don't want to argue about it.

You indicated that the only way that you'd stop harrassing me on the subject is for me to either agree with you or stop posting. I'll not agree with you and I've seen no indication that you are willing to extend any common courtesy to anyone who disagrees with you after you've got it in your head to start sniping at them.

Archer, I'm going to give you a piece of advice. It's for free, too.

Grow a spine.

If I tell you, "Well, you could just make it easier on yourself and agree with me" come up with something like, "Agreeing with you is never easy when you're wrong" or simply "No!"

It's just that easy. These long, melancholy replies about how awful it is when people are snarky to you have a distinctly nasal quality to them that, quite frankly, makes me want to hurl.

You can imply that I'm being juvenile about this but there's only one person's behavior here who could honestly be characterized as being less than mature. Hint: its not me.

How dare you imply that Detritus is being juvenille? He didn't do anything to you, so leave him out of this.

I've really enjoyed writing on this thread. If you're willing to let that one subject drop and to try to make chatting about your game a pleasant experience rather than an unpleasant one, I'd be more than willing to come back and post some more. Otherwise, I can go play WoW and have a better time.

Um, how about YOU let the subject drop and try to make chatting with me a more pleasant experience instead of whining about it like this?

I've enjoyed your contributions to this thread, Archer. I disagree with you, I can show why from the rules and yes, when you continue to disagree with me without reason or purpose eventually I'm going to get snarky. If you want to post your stuff, great, I'll read it. But it's not like you're blackmailing me with the lack of your continuing presence.

Hell, I've even INVITED you to this event. You can't come, and I can understand that. You will be missed. But I have extended MORE than a fair share of inclusion to you, and if you insist on feeling offended and huffy and taking your toys with you on your way out of the sandbox, I'm not going to stop you.

[Archer]

it's not like you're blackmailing me with the lack of your continuing presence...and if you insist on feeling offended and huffy and taking your toys with you on your way out of the sandbox, I'm not going to stop you



You've turned a pleasant chat into something that's unpleasant for me. I don't feel particularly huffy. But I have no desire to have further unpleasant experiences by making unnecessary small talk about your D&D game.

Good luck to everyone coming to the game.

[Origen]

You've turned a pleasant chat into something that's unpleasant for me. I don't feel particularly huffy. But I have no desire to have further unpleasant experiences by making unnecessary small talk about your D&D game.

Albert Einstein wisely defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

One of these days, you're actually going to realize that this tactic doesn't work, Archer.

[happykat]

Sure thing.

I'd like to change those names, though. Yes?

[Detritus]

I'd like to change those names, though. Yes?
The names are suggestions, and purely optional, natch.

[Mouser]

Page 199: Creating a Character Above 1st Level

Explicitly states that one may create a magic item with less than the full set of charges by cost per charge.

[Origen]

Mouser caught me with my rules pants down on this one. If anyone made their characters with less than 50 charges on a wand or similar item, and I said no, go ahead and change it back.

Good catch, Mouser.