poll: all-time fave (NFL) head coach?

[silverwhisper]

it's a simple question...

[BattleNymph]

George Siefert. He had class, brilliance and a real concern for his players.

And the fact that he coached my favorite team doesn't hurt. :D

[Wook]

Bill Parcells or Joe Gibbs.

[silverwhisper]

it's funny--much as i love parcells, he does kinda irritate me sometimes. he's now the GM of a bad team but not the head coach, which means that he'll be...shopping for the groceries for a head coach. the same problem he had in new england.

perhaps oddly, i think my fave is marv levy.

yes, marv levy.

[Parzival]

Dan Reeves or Marty Schottenheimer

And an honorable mention to da coach, Ditka.

[Wook]

it's funny--much as i love parcells, he does kinda irritate me sometimes. he's now the GM of a bad team but not the head coach, which means that he'll be...shopping for the groceries for a head coach. the same problem he had in new england.

perhaps oddly, i think my fave is marv levy.

yes, marv levy.

Everywhere Parcells has gone he's turned the team into a winner. I don't know how he'll do in the GM's role but as a coach his record is undeniable.

Joe Gibbs didn't do so well on his latest return but in his day managed to win super bowls in a short span of time with vastly different quarterbacks. IMHO that bespeaks of an excellent mind and an accomplishment no other multi-super bowl winning coach can point to.

Levy had 4 consecutive tries at the prize and failed. While the feat by itself is amazing it leaves him a level short IMHO. Maybe not so much short but in a different category.

[Wook]

Dan Reeves or Marty Schottenheimer

And an honorable mention to da coach, Ditka.

Marty? Really?

[silverwhisper]

****: parz has long been a fan of schottenheimer, actually.

yes, parcells is a great coach, no question. but his manner makes him not my favorite coach.

to the best of my knowledge, marv levy conducted himself with class. and no other coach has ever reached the big game 4 consecutive times. hell, no other coach has reached it 3 consecutive times. there are coaches who go their whole careers without getting there once.

besides, levy was an english instructor. i think that incongruity is incredibly cool, myself. :>

[Wook]

And Levy couldn't get past the Tuna, Johnson (twice), or Mariaucci (IIRC?)... That's what leaves him in a different place IMHO.

Thurman Thomas, Jim Kelly, and Andre Reed should all have at least 1 ring and maybe two but never got there. The quality of the talent isn't in doubt so I'm left with the coach...

[silverwhisper]

you know the old saying, ****: coaches coach, players play...

[Parzival]

Marty? Really?
<shrug> There aren't many coaches who have coached as long, much less had such a high winning percentage over so many years.

I need to add George Hallas to the list.

[silverwhisper]

i'll confess, i was looking at how somewhat contemporary your list looked and was surprised by it, parz. :>

[Wook]

i'll confess, i was looking at how somewhat contemporary your list looked and was surprised by it, parz. :>

Ditto here. There are guys that coached the same kind of game with a similar kind of attitude and done far better than Marty ever has. A fellow named Lombardi comes to mind...

[Wook]

you know the old saying, ****: coaches coach, players play...

I watched all four of those games and I can't say that the bills players didn't bring their best against the Giants and one of their bouts against Dallas. IMHO that falls on the coach. I have similar problems with Dan Reeves who's had five shots at it and not gotten it done...

[silverwhisper]

i watched all four of 'em, too. but ****, professional athletes in the championship shouldn't need any help with motivation. to me that's not a failure of the coach at all. that's like blaming a teacher b/c students fail.

[Wook]

i watched all four of 'em, too. but ****, professional athletes in the championship shouldn't need any help with motivation. to me that's not a failure of the coach at all. that's like blaming a teacher b/c students fail.

That's what I'm saying dude. The Bills had no problem with motivation in two of those games. None at all IMHO. That they didn't win then falls to the coach. If you wanted another example of a bad coaching job losing the super bowl just go and look at John Gruden's destruction of the Raiders. In fact it could be argued that gruden destroyed the franchise given how badly the Raiders have fared since.

[silverwhisper]

no, that's not at all what you're saying. the coach doesn't play the games. if the game plan was crap, that's one thing. but players not execution on a good game plan--that's on the players, not the coaches, AFAICT.

[Wook]

no, that's not at all what you're saying. the coach doesn't play the games. if the game plan was crap, that's one thing. but players not execution on a good game plan--that's on the players, not the coaches, AFAICT.

That's what I'm saying ed. All indications are that the players played well therefore the game plan was crap. Players can execute everything fine but if the play calling is wrong they fail. It's a move counter move type scenario.

[Detritus]

I'd go with Ditka. Chuck Noll would be my runner-up.

[Parzival]

A fellow by the name of Lombardi coached only 136 games. Great coach (71% winning percentage) but he didn't have the extreme longevity.

If you want to choose a Packer coach for camparision, you should be looking at Curly Lambeau instead. He coached 382 games, with a winning percentage of 59%.
Marty coached 311 games with a winning percentage of 60%.
Slight advantage: Marty.
(Before factoring in that Marty rebuilt several teams during that stretch, while Curly stayed in one place with a perennial powerhouse. Heck, a full 10% of Marty's career losses occured during a single season while he was rebuilding the Chargers.)

By comparision:
George Halas coached 494 games with a winning percentage of 64%.
Chuck Noll coached 342 games with a winning percentage of 56%.
Tom Landry coached 418 games with a winning percentage of 60%.
John Madden coached 142 games with a winning percentage of 73%. (Just for the direct Lombardi comparision.)

Marty is definately among the all-time elite coaches.
Damn few coaches have a career winning percentage of 60%, much less maintained that high a winning percentage for 20-something years, much less did so coaching four seperate teams.

[Wook]

With Marty my problem has more to do with the 5-13 playoff mark and no trips to the big dance. For an NFL coach that's what you call a fatal flaw.

[silverwhisper]

****: ah...i see i was undercaffeinated. my bad. :>

i should point out that while most people are happy to judge QBs by superbowl rings, it appears that standard is less universal WRT coaches, huh?

[Wook]

****: ah...i see i was undercaffeinated. my bad. :>

i should point out that while most people are happy to judge QBs by superbowl rings, it appears that standard is less universal WRT coaches, huh?

Not for me. Prolonged excellence is to be respected but if a coach never gets to the super bowl then he is by far a lesser creature than those that do. Marty doesn't even make my radar for greatest coaches ever. Whether or not the coach can win in the playoffs and take a team to the Super Bowl is the defining aspect of greatness for me.

[silverwhisper]

OK, but my point was that we're nowhere near a consensus. :>

[Wook]

Here's the Hall of Fame list. (http://www.supernfl.com/HallOfFameMembers.html) The non-players are marked with *'s. Of the ones that are coaches I'm seeing a bunch of people that made, and won, the big dance and not much else. (Although to be honest I'm looking at some of the Pre-NFL names and scratching my head. Espeically the guys that date from the 20's to 50's.

[silverwhisper]

i note, w/ some small amusement, that coach levy's in. :>

[Wook]

i note, w/ some small amusement, that coach levy's in. :>

Except I never denied Levy's Greatness. Just said it was a distinct second to Parcells, and Gibbs.

[silverwhisper]

fair point. :>