07 Pats vs 72 fins

[Wook]

There's lots of compare and contrast about these two teams. It is by no means official until they actually accomplish the feat. But here some questions I think interesting about the whole deal.

1. What do you think of spygate and it's relevance to what an unbeaten season would have in meaning for the Patriots. Do you think it puts a permanent * next to the record and their accomplishments?

2. What do you think of the not quite glee Don Shula has taken in cheering for the other guys week to week? (Assuming his appearance on MNF is indicative of his general feelings.)

[carmachu]

No matter what a Pats fan says....*cough* BB*cough*, its definately a black mark. They can say all they want that their winning despite the spygate...but the reality is they did it, they got caught at, and punished.

I dont know about an asterisk....but you can never mention the 2007 Pats(or their run, since there were allegations the prior year) without mentioning it. Thats the reality.

Its a shame that the NFL was so quick to destroy the tapes....

2)Don and the other guys from the dolphins have been doing that for YEARS, everytime someone goes on a win streak. Its nothing new.

[Detritus]

1. They got caught, but I think most teams do it to some degree. Doesn't make any difference at all in my mind.

2. It's petty, but understandable. Not much else to say, AFAIC.

[Brother Brian]

No matter what people said *Carm* cough cough, there's no reason anybody can think the Pats received any competitive advantage over any team due to it.

Had it come out in week 6, it would have been a different story. But they got caught too quick for it to matter.

As for which team is better, the reality is that it depends on how you ask the question. If we put the two teams on the same field, the Pats would win by 30. The game hits plays faster and harder than it did 35 years ago. Mercury Morris wouldn't start in today's NFL.

Now if you compare them by generation... that's debatable. From what I've read, their schedule was just as padded with bad teams (including the 72 Pats, who were awful), as the current Patriots run in the AFC East. The 07 Pats have larger margins of victory, but the change in style over the years covers a lot of that.

As for Shula, he's a long overrated coach who's still bitter he couldn't keep up with the league. I honestly feel bad for him that he thinks another team going perfect, (an he was as bad with Indy a few years back), somehow invalidates his team's accomplishments.

[Detritus]

Miami's schedule was fairly soft, but they also led the league in most points scored, most yards gained, and fewest points and yards given up. They also went half their season with their backup QB while Griese was out. I don't think Matt Cassell leads the Pats on an 8-game winning streak if he were pressed into service, but that's just a guess.

NE's wins over Indy, Dallas, and San Diego compare favorably to anything the Dolphins had back then. Let's see how the playoffs go.

[Wook]

No matter what people said *Carm* cough cough, there's no reason anybody can think the Pats received any competitive advantage over any team due to it.

Had it come out in week 6, it would have been a different story. But they got caught too quick for it to matter.

As for which team is better, the reality is that it depends on how you ask the question. If we put the two teams on the same field, the Pats would win by 30. The game hits plays faster and harder than it did 35 years ago. Mercury Morris wouldn't start in today's NFL.

Now if you compare them by generation... that's debatable. From what I've read, their schedule was just as padded with bad teams (including the 72 Pats, who were awful), as the current Patriots run in the AFC East. The 07 Pats have larger margins of victory, but the change in style over the years covers a lot of that.

As for Shula, he's a long overrated coach who's still bitter he couldn't keep up with the league. I honestly feel bad for him that he thinks another team going perfect, (an he was as bad with Indy a few years back), somehow invalidates his team's accomplishments.

Conveniently ignoring that they had been doing it for some unknown length of time and had sufficient materials for it to seriously matter. The cover up by the NFL office has not helped things. Instead of resolution they've hung an asterisk next to not only anything NE has done this season but all of NE's achivements in the last six years. I will never regard any of these things as untainted and that is as it should be.

[Brother Brian]

Convienently forgetting that Mangini was doing it when he worked for us, and that the rule was only passed recently.

Also forgetting that calls change througout the season, because simple observation makes it easy to steal if you use the same signs 16 times. Nothing that may or may not have been recorded last year is of value this year.

I'm not saying it's meaningless. I'm saying that it's effect on this season was meaningless.

[carmachu]

No matter what people said *Carm* cough cough, there's no reason anybody can think the Pats received any competitive advantage over any team due to it.

That of course, is a a lie.

Why do it if it DOESNT get you an advantage? Coaches dont do things that arent going to work for them BB.....if there was no reason to have a competetive edge....why keep doing it?

[Brother Brian]

Had they gotten away with it, they may have gotten a competitive advantage, (although even that is unclear, as the average NFL team changes their signals 3-4 times a season).

But they didn't get away with it. Thus, it had no effect on this year's team.

[Wook]

Asterisk. Forever.

[Chris]

One minor point that gets overlooked sometimes. Let's not forget that in '72 the season was only 14 games long. Miami went 14-0. That's where the Pats are right now. If the Pats run the table this year, it's an even more impressive feat, IMNSHO.

[carmachu]

yes, if the pats run the whole table it will be more impressive then the dolphin one.

[Wook]

Oh it'll be one of the most impressive accomplishments ever in sports but it will always have the * next to it because you don't know how much of it, if any of it, is tainted by NE's spying activities.

[Parzival]

It'll be more impressive.
*IF* they then go on to win the AFC and the Superbowl.

Homefield advantage isn't necessarily a good thing for the Pats. Pittsburg and Jacksonville are a lot more suited to the likely postseason conditions.

[Wook]

Unless it's Indy that they meet in the AFC championship in which case it's good for them.

Right no I'm seriously hoping in a big way for a Green Bay vs NE Super Bowl. I think that would be one of the most storied games we'd see in our lives.

[Brother Brian]

Oh it'll be one of the most impressive accomplishments ever in sports but it will always have the * next to it because you don't know how much of it, if any of it, is tainted by NE's spying activities.

Yes, I do.

They were caught 30 minutes into the season. 30 minutes. They taped 1 half of football.

It had ZERO effect on any other game of the year. None. Nada. Zip.

And the Jets suck, and would have had their asses kicked anyway.

[carmachu]

And the Jets suck, and would have had their asses kicked anyway.

While true, then why did Bellicheck feel the need to cheat?


I've never had heard a good answer....ESPECIALLY since M is his former assisstant and KNOWS how he does it.

[Paulypalooza]

They were caught 30 minutes into the season. 30 minutes. They taped 1 half of football.

It had ZERO effect on any other game of the year. None. Nada. Zip.

And the Jets suck, and would have had their asses kicked anyway.

All of that is true, and I think if the pats run the table and win the Superbowl it will be a bigger accomplishment. But spy-gate will still always be there to haunt them.

[Brother Brian]

While true, then why did Bellicheck feel the need to cheat?


I've never had heard a good answer....ESPECIALLY since M is his former assisstant and KNOWS how he does it.

The answer on radio here is that they had always done it, and lots of teams had done it. This year the NFL sent out warnings pre-season, and Belechick ignored them, not understanding that the league was serious.

[carmachu]

The answer on radio here is that they had always done it, and lots of teams had done it. This year the NFL sent out warnings pre-season, and Belechick ignored them, not understanding that the league was serious.


you realize how stupid that sounds, right?

There were allegations last year made against them on this. There are solid rules on the books on electronic survelience(I forget when they were instituted). Every team tries to pick up the other guys signals, from having guys in the stands to otehr stuff....gone on for decades.

Electronic cameras? Againast the rules. And Belecick is stupid to do it, ESPECIALLY against the Jets. I mean:

The jets suck. I mean, their only better than miami. Your a superbowl contender coming into the season.

Their head coach worked under you and KNOWS what your doing. And warned you not to do it against them. AND the jets have a damn good security guy.


Sorry BB, I dont buy it. Doesnt add up, nor pass a smell test.

But yoru right. Doesnt taint this years accomplishments. It does tehir other championships. But not this year.

[Brother Brian]

I'll agree with the idea that it brings previous years into question. I don't think it puts THIS year into question.

[Parzival]

Nobody knew how badly the Jets were going to suck this year.
They were a play-off team last year, they'd built a young O-line rated as one of the best in the game, and they'd added a stud running back.

<shrug> Then the wheels fell off.
Turns out that the "expendable" veteran on the O-line that the management was so eager to get rid of, was the glue holding the unit together.

But at the beginning of the season, the Jets were reguarded as a serious contender.