Where to go with an epic rogue?

[Origen]

Puck
Halfling
Neutral with chaotic tendencies

Wilderness Rogue 16, Ninja Spy 4, Ranger 2, Thief Acrobat 1

(I think I'm going to dump the Thief Acrobat level with the retraining option that Dr. Merc allows us to use, since my acrobat skills are so high at this point that it becomes unnecessary.)

Puck is now 22nd level, as of Sunday's game. His first Epic Feat was a custom Epic Feat for Dr. Mercury's World's Largest Dungeon campaign, Epic Ancestral Relic. I think his 24th level epic feat is going to be Lingering Damage.

His skills are now as follows, although he's not done adding enchantments to his ring, yet. He has skill mastery with 11 skills, and Ninja Spy allows him to take 10 with Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble:

Balance +48
Bluff +35 (Bluff against Sense Motive for Feint +45)
Climb +35
Disable Device +52
Disguise +24
Hide +70
Jump +32
Listen +41
Move Silently +43
Open Locks +52
Search +55
Sense Motive +35 (vs Feint: +50)
Sleight of Hand +53
Spot +47
Survival +42
Tumble +48
Use Magic Device +35

The only skills he can't take 10 (Skill Mastery) in are Disguise, which is a nearly useless ability anyway, and Use Magic Device, which only a Warlock can take 10 in, anyway.

[carmachu]

What books are availiable for the campagin?

[Origen]

Core, all the complete books, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, Book of Erotic Fantasy, psionics book, nearly everything WotC publishes except the race books, and even then, if you can pose a legitimate character interest, Doc Merc seems pretty open.

[Detritus]

Dervish, maybe? I guess you need Perform (Dance) for that, and some sort of Weapon Focus for a slashing weapon. Depending on how much re-training you are allowed you could take the skills/feats you need, and then you might be able to use Puck's TWF capabilities to better effect with some Dervish Dancing.

[carmachu]

I'll have to relook through book of rougish luck and get back to you

[Parzival]

Where should you go?
Out of the World's Largest Dungeon, as fast as your little furry feet can carry you.

[Wook]

All that but you can't be a "lord of silence"? I think you may want to revisit that.

[Origen]

I presented the book, but it was given a thumbs down by both DMs. I think it's more a matter of principle, than game balance.

I've had a LOT of fun playing the character, so I'm not going to gripe.

I don't know what level we're going to go to, but the maximum I can see is:

Rogue 19, Ninja Spy 9, Ranger 2

I've only played one character beyond that level, so we'll see how high this goes.

So far, the epic feats I see are:

Epic Ancestral Relic
Lingering Damage

I have no idea where to go, after that. Most of the epic feats for rogues blow. Infinite Deflection is cool, but we really don't see missile weapons that often.

Where should you go?
Out of the World's Largest Dungeon, as fast as your little furry feet can carry you.

Tee hee!

[Wook]

I'm sure they had good reason before but if you're hitting epic skill DC's with casual "take 10's" there's nothing anywhere in that book that apporaches that with the exception of one or two spells that all involve the word "crystal" in the name. And even then you need metamagic to really torque things out.

[Origen]

I'm sure they had good reason before but if you're hitting epic skill DC's with casual "take 10's" there's nothing anywhere in that book that apporaches that with the exception of one or two spells that all involve the word "crystal" in the name. And even then you need metamagic to really torque things out.

Honestly, at this point, Rogue fits just fine. I've enjoyed playing it more than any other base class all the way up. Thief Acrobat made a few things possible that I think should be possible through the skill system, anyway, and Ninja Spy just added some flavor. It was a hard decision to take Use Magic Device, because I never saw him as anything even remotely resembling a spellcaster, but as a technician, and someone who watched the spellcasters closely, I figure sooner or later someone that smart was bound to pick up on the mechanical end of magic, and use the tools, even if he can't cast a spell to save his life.

[Wook]

Honestly, at this point, Rogue fits just fine. I've enjoyed playing it more than any other base class all the way up. Thief Acrobat made a few things possible that I think should be possible through the skill system, anyway, and Ninja Spy just added some flavor. It was a hard decision to take Use Magic Device, because I never saw him as anything even remotely resembling a spellcaster, but as a technician, and someone who watched the spellcasters closely, I figure sooner or later someone that smart was bound to pick up on the mechanical end of magic, and use the tools, even if he can't cast a spell to save his life.

Nod. Just as a thought though... If you're about narfing spellcacsters and that is going to become you're nice consider that the abilities of that class are pretty much tailored specifically to taking out spellcasters.

[Origen]

Nod. Just as a thought though... If you're about narfing spellcacsters and that is going to become you're nice consider that the abilities of that class are pretty much tailored specifically to taking out spellcasters.

Fair point.

[Wook]

Fair point.

The 15' 24/7 aura of silence that you can shrink down to just your hex as a standard action is pretty useful. Same for the 10' darkness that is 24/7 and the silent strike/steal voice combo that renders the caster incapable of talking. (dependent upon landing a sneak attack.) When i was playing Chinder in the requiem game me and the shade ranger positively ripped through battle clerics. 1-2 rounds=pwnd. As much me as it was him.

[SilverDragon]

I'd suggest the Soulknife from Extended Psionic Handbook. The psionic feats alone would open up a whole new avenue for your character.

[Origen]

I'd suggest the Soulknife from Extended Psionic Handbook. The psionic feats alone would open up a whole new avenue for your character.

I thought the Soulknife basically sucked?

Which feats are you talking about?

[SilverDragon]

Psionic Feats (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicFeats.htm)

Aligned Attack

Cloak Dance

Deadly Precision

Deep Impact (If your DM rules your Soulblade a Psionic weapon that is)

Fell Shot (Same as Deep Impact above)

Focused Sunder

Sidestep Charge

Speed Of Thought

Stand Still

Up The Walls

[Origen]

Aligned Attack

Cloak Dance

Deadly Precision

Deep Impact (If your DM rules your Soulblade a Psionic weapon that is)

Fell Shot (Same as Deep Impact above)

Focused Sunder

Sidestep Charge

Speed Of Thought

Stand Still

Up The Walls

In my opinion, Cloak Dance isn't worth it at this point. If I want a miss chance, I'd go with a Cloak of Displacement. Deep impact is nice, certainly, but it seems like I'm giving up Sneak Attack progression and skill points for a trick I get a few times a day, and not all that interesting or effective at our level. Same thing with Fell Shot.

Focused Sunder is at the end of a three-feat tree. No way.

Sidestep Charge and a +4 AC bonus don't mean a whole lot at this point, and even if it did, the return AoO would only happen when whatever charged didn't have 10 or more feet of reach.

In other words, not often.

A 10 foot bonus to my movement doesn't mean a whole lot at a level where I can get the epic boots that double it.

Stand Still is a useful feat. Our frontline fighter has it. His damage can actually stop people. Mine can't.

My epic tumbling actually allows me to run up walls and creatures already, and even if it didn't, I have a Cloak of Arachnid.

The only feat that mildly tempts me is Deadly Precision. On one of my sneak attacks last Sunday, I rolled 5 1's out of 10d6.

[Origen]

Honestly, I think the key to my future effectiveness lies in my Ancestral Relic, and my use of scrolls.

I can read a 8th level scroll at this point (caster level 16), and if I wanted to bump my relic to +10 on UMD, I could easily read a caster level 21 scroll without rolling, or even add a +6 Charisma bonus and read caster level 24 scrolls.

I can also add a Ring of Greater Spell Storing into my relic, and store 10 levels of spells.

[Origen]

I guess the thing is that I've pretty much hit the glass ceiling of what you can do with a rogue. For one combat, before Girallion's Blessing was removed (and justifiably so), I pushed Sneak Attack into the stratosphere.

With Balance, Bluff, Climb, Disable Device, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Open Locks, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Survival (Tracking), Tumble and Use Magic Device, I can already hit DCs that few in the party can even hit half as high. Hidufel's character can match me on Sense Motive, but eh, what good is that?

Climb and Jump are eventually superseded by flight, anyway.

Swim is a non-issue at high- and epic levels.

I can emulate Swim with the Cloak of the Manta Ray in my relic.

I can emulate Escape Artist with a Ring of Freedom of Movement.

I've pretty much done everything that a skills-based character can do, and continuing to push my already absurd skill modifiers further into the stratosphere isn't satisfying, anymore.

Becoming more effective in combat isn't the answer, either, because we already have a couple of very effective tanks.

[Wook]

I guess the thing is that I've pretty much hit the glass ceiling of what you can do with a rogue. For one combat, before Girallion's Blessing was removed (and justifiably so), I pushed Sneak Attack into the stratosphere.

With Balance, Bluff, Climb, Disable Device, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Open Locks, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Survival (Tracking), Tumble and Use Magic Device, I can already hit DCs that few in the party can even hit half as high. Hidufel's character can match me on Sense Motive, but eh, what good is that?

Climb and Jump are eventually superseded by flight, anyway.

Swim is a non-issue at high- and epic levels.

I can emulate Swim with the Cloak of the Manta Ray in my relic.

I can emulate Escape Artist with a Ring of Freedom of Movement.

I've pretty much done everything that a skills-based character can do, and continuing to push my already absurd skill modifiers further into the stratosphere isn't satisfying, anymore.

Becoming more effective in combat isn't the answer, either, because we already have a couple of very effective tanks.

It sounds to me like you need/want some sort of hybrid niche capability. If you can retrain then consider retraining the thief acrobat out, gaining some levels of wizard, and going arccane trickster. Also - Warlock and/or hexblade might both also be entertaining for you. All of those offer an interesting synthesis of skills, magic, and combat.

Personally I'm a big fan of warlock if you've got craploads of sneak attack dice as it's 1/rd damage that just doesn't stop for anything. Hexblade is a combat class that also lets you play with some fun spells like Baelful polymorph and enervation. The curse of unluck is also fun too.

[hidufel]

Actually **** has a good point, if you can retrain... i know warlocke is really fun to play.

Consider this... if youve eclipsed Puck, and have taken him where you want to go... try something diferent. A warlock / rogue would be quite an interesting combo, you could get your sneak attack with the warlock attacks, though youd lose the many iterative sneeks possible. Shelving your current build could be an answer on your cunnundrum...

And consider this as well. Just ask the gnome to make you a thought bottle, store your experience, then retrain your self. ifn you dont like where you are or your abilities... one chug of the thought bottle, and bamm, Puck is his original old self!

[hidufel]

Wow that gives me an idea... you could store like three different versions of yourself, and depending on the situation, you could choose which youd need!

Need that uber rogue to sneak the BBEG? Gulp... back to old puck!

Need a new anti spellcasting machine to shut down the hoard of mages? Gulp! new and improved Puck, mage killer!


Oh God, the possibiliteis are endless. I think i need poppy to make buæd a few bottles...

[Wook]

Wow that gives me an idea... you could store like three different versions of yourself, and depending on the situation, you could choose which youd need!

Need that uber rogue to sneak the BBEG? Gulp... back to old puck!

Need a new anti spellcasting machine to shut down the hoard of mages? Gulp! new and improved Puck, mage killer!


Oh God, the possibiliteis are endless. I think i need poppy to make buæd a few bottles...

I would so bust out the ban hammer on that in less than .001 seconds it's not even funny. You would think of asking and i'd preemptively say NO!!! ;)

[Origen]

Hmmm.

Some interesting thoughts.

Once I get an upgrade to my lockpicks, and some goggles of +30 search, traps are pretty never going to be an issue again.

At that point, my take 10 on Open Locks and Disable Device will be 87, with the possibility of another 25 from competence in my relic if I really wanted to make things absurd by cranking my take 10 up to 112.

My search will cap out a little lower at a take 10 of 90, which will be over three times my ECL.

Like I said, if I can't find it or disarm it, then even the gods themselves would have blundered into it.

[hidufel]

Well like i said the other day... Buæd could find those traps, Easy!

[Origen]

Well like i said the other day... Buæd could find those traps, Easy!

Heh.

Without setting it off, I mean.

[hidufel]

Yup i think i remember you making that point the other day too... lol ;-)

well since DD hasnt been that important... maybe i can take a retrain, and try a something out for buæd meself...

[Dr. Mercury]

You could always become a Sacred Prostitute. :D

[Origen]

Yeaaaaaahmaybeeeee .... no.

[hidufel]

Where can you go really? within the confines of this dungeon were in... youre almost stuck being the trapper rogue, unless the GM wants to make some changes.

[Origen]

Where can you go really? within the confines of this dungeon were in... youre almost stuck being the trapper rogue, unless the GM wants to make some changes.

Like I said, short of starting a new character - and who'd want to do that, this late in the game? - I think my best angle is Use Magic Device, scrolls and perhaps a ring or two of spell storing.

I think battlefield control is my next line of tactics.

More on that, soon.

[Wook]

I think battlefield control is my next line of tactics.


Wall spells, cloud of/fog spells, chained spells, and forcecage.

[Origen]

I did the training change to Puck's character sheet last night. It involved taking -2 on his Reflex save, but no change in BAB, hit points or skill points.

Puck, halfling, neutral

Wilderness Rogue 15, Ninja Spy 5, Ranger 2

I'm thinking about dumping the TWF feats, and training out the Ranger, which I really only took for feats. My emphasis is less and less on combat as we face masses of foes. I don't know, though.

The two levels of ranger are also a nod to my namesake, Belkar.

For Rogue special abilities, I have Opportunist and Skill Mastery, and then from Ninja Spy I have Improved Evasion, Hide in Plain Sight and a minor form of Skill Mastery that only effects Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble. Next online is Crippling Strike, which is a prereq for Lingering Damage (my next Epic feat at 24th level):

---

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#lingeringDamage

Lingering Damage [Epic]
Prerequisite
Sneak attack +8d6, crippling strike class feature.

Benefit
Any time you deal damage with a sneak attack, that target takes damage equal to your sneak attack bonus damage on your next turn as well.

---

I'll probably keep the TWF feats, if for no other reason than they fit with the character. But it's a tough one, sometimes.

[JasonStarfire]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#lingeringDamage

Lingering Damage [Epic]
Prerequisite
Sneak attack +8d6, crippling strike class feature.

Benefit
Any time you deal damage with a sneak attack, that target takes damage equal to your sneak attack bonus damage on your next turn as well.

---

I'll probably keep the TWF feats, if for no other reason than they fit with the character. But it's a tough one, sometimes.

:respect: That is a thing of beauty. I haven't played in an epic game yet. I'll specifically keep that feat in mind when I do!

[Origen]

:respect: That is a thing of beauty. I haven't played in an epic game yet. I'll specifically keep that feat in mind when I do!

If you are a melee rogue entering Epic levels, Lingering Damage should be your first feat, period. It is hands down the best Epic feat for your character. The only reason I put it off until 24th level was because of Dr. Merc's houserule about Ancestral Relic, and the Epic Ancestral Relic feat that he made available. I also put it off because I've built my character as THE penultimate skills character, so I took Skill Mastery as my 13th level Rogue special ability.

[Detritus]

I also put it off because I've built my character as THE penultimate skills character...
Not the ultimate or antepenultimate skills character, but penultimate? How did you determine this?

[Origen]

I just want to take a moment to note that last Sunday, I made a DC 100 Disable Device check.

Just out of curiosity, I looked up Olidammara in the 3.0 Deities and Demigods.

His Disable Device is +45.

Suck it, God of Thieves!

[Magnus Bergqvist]

Eeek! is all I say.

/Magnus

[Dr. Mercury]

I just want to take a moment to note that last Sunday, I made a DC 100 Disable Device check.

And, the session before last, you cut off a fellow party member's arm--and he let you!

Ah, the corruptibility of player characters, MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Origen]

And, the session before last, you cut off a fellow party member's arm--and he let you!

Ah, the corruptibility of player characters, MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

And the best part?

I gave one of his fingers to the necromancer the next session. I cut a couple of them off while nobody was looking.

[carmachu]

And the best part?

I gave one of his fingers to the necromancer the next session. I cut a couple of them off while nobody was looking.

Ok spill, what happened that he let you cut off his arm and why?

[Parzival]

agree with carm. spill the story.

[Origen]

We found a good artifact that was approximately the equivalent of the Hand of Vecna, except, obviously, it was ... you know .... good. Dr. Mercury was reading down the list of things it could do. Including all of the Bigby's hand spells once per day, +25 to grapple checks. You could see the wizard salivating. And then come the part about cutting off the arm.

"I'll do it," I offered.

"I'm still thinking about it," he said.

"But I'll do it. I've got a keen vorpal kukri. I'll totally do it."

"Would you shut up? I'm thinking!"

"I'm just saying I'll do it."

"Yeah, I got that part."

He asked the DM a couple of questions, and then said, "I'm going to roll 1d6. If it's 1 through 4, the dwarf is going to do it. If it's 5 or 6, Puck gets to do it."

He rolled.

"That looks like a 5 to me," I said. And I rolled a d20.

"What are you rolling for? Just do a coup de grace."

"I said it was a vorpal weapon. I need to make sure I don't accidentally cut off your head."

"What?!?!?!"

"Relax. I didn't roll a natural 20. I hand the arm over to the guadians of the forest so that they can make the next artifact out of it."

Then I held up two fingers as if they were in my palm, and grinned.

"Anyone want to see if they can make the Spot check against my Sleight of Hand for stealing the two fingers? No? Didn't think so."

My first gift to the necromancer the next game session was to take him aside and give him one of the wizard's fingers.

[Parzival]

OK, I have to ask: Who was the player that was stupid enough to willingly have his hand cut off?

Even *if* replaced by an artifact. <grin> We all know artifacts have as many drawbacks as bonuses.
For starters, I would guess that he's unable to leave the dungeon. Ever.

[carmachu]

Arm, not hand....

[LagomorphPrime]

And you get to make all the "Need a hand with that?" type jokes. :th_dblthumb2:

[Kalzazz]

Whats a necromancer going to do with a finger?

[hidufel]

Our resident necromancer has been making it a point of collecting bits and pieces of everything we encounter so far. In character, we have no idea what he plans, and he tells us he has a use for em... well we'll see...

It's all part of the way our Necro roleplays his char.

[Dr. Mercury]

OK, I have to ask: Who was the player that was stupid enough to willingly have his hand cut off?

Even *if* replaced by an artifact. <grin> We all know artifacts have as many drawbacks as bonuses.
For starters, I would guess that he's unable to leave the dungeon. Ever.
Heh, heh, heh....

He'll be able to leave the dungeon. However, there's the matter of the arm's previous owner.

You see, the previous owner eventually regenerated the limbs he lost. A while later, he ascended to godhood. In short, the PC is walking around with the former left arm of a god.

He does not worhsip that god.

Yet. :D

:go:

Hey, in my last campaign, I got a PC to sacrifice his character's cousin (a fellow PC) and aunt in order to untap the divine blood in his veins and prevent his resurrection from being rescinded.

[Blastum]

Ok in response to Parzvial the pessimist's Quote below:


OK, I have to ask: Who was the player that was stupid enough to willingly have his hand cut off?

Even *if* replaced by an artifact. <grin> We all know artifacts have as many drawbacks as bonuses.
For starters, I would guess that he's unable to leave the dungeon. Ever.

What's Stupid about it? It is one of several artifacts that we have to find to complete the dungeon, it allows me to cast every hand spell (twice not once a day), and lets me use the +25 grapple bonus on the hand spells as well. Besides what am I going to do with a likely 30th lvl Wizard once we finish this dungeon?

Using (attaching :)) the artifact makes it harder for the bad guys to steal it and they were already out to get me. Better still now I have the staff that goes with it and I can use all of the powers on the staff, which is way better than a staff of the magi.

The only draw back that I see is it is one of the arms (lost by a character in our last campain) is a gods and he may want it back. I already have the items required to grow my arm back if I lose it and I can always have it removed and regenerate my arm (don't forget at this lvl a regenerate spell is not that big a deal). Besides the god who's arm I am wearing is good, my character is the only original good character left (everyone else except the Nec. (definiately not good) has died at least once and started new charcters) in the party and Boccob has not been very helpful since we got in here. Hey wait a minute isn't it Baccob's fault Uther's stuck here in this dungeon? I mean he sent Uther here in the first place right?:troutslap:


By the way Origen, when Uther finds out that Puck gave the Necromancer one of his fingers and that he still has another one we will find out whether or not Puck really can hide from a 23rd level wizard. I'm betting not and I think puck will not like the Twined Empowered Orb of Acid in a very tender location :throwup::saeek:. There are some things you should never do to the party wizard ... If you know whats good for you...

[hidufel]

Hey welcome to the Board Blastum!... BTW you up for WLD multi days this coming weekend?

[Blastum]

I will be playing at least on Sat. Maybe some on Sunday depending on what is going on.

[hidufel]

YOu should bop over to the d20 black ops forum too...

[Origen]

By the way Origen, when Uther finds out that Puck gave the Necromancer one of his fingers and that he still has another one we will find out whether or not Puck really can hide from a 23rd level wizard. I'm betting not and I think puck will not like the Twined Empowered Orb of Acid in a very tender location :throwup::saeek:. There are some things you should never do to the party wizard ... If you know whats good for you...

What's life without risk?

The likelihood of your character discovering that little bit of information without an EXTREME amount of metagaming is very small.

[Blastum]

Not really I figure Uther will find out when the Necromancer actually does something stupid like trying to use the finger. Once he finishes taking it away from the Necromancer he will beat out of him where he got it from. You and I both know he will rat on Puck in a heartbeat...

[hidufel]

ROFL!  

[Dai Oni]

Hey guys, it is no big deal, the Necromancer is just collecting souveniers of all the party members that he can (not that I am privy to Dr. Jim's plans). I just think you all should be happy it is just the fingers he is collecting....

I have to admit the severing of the arm was hysterical involving a die roll. At one point Nalanthe wanted in on that action as well, but gave way to Puck and Buaed. She figured it was not worth arguing over. But the roll off to see who cut the arm off was sublime.

[Origen]

Not really I figure Uther will find out when the Necromancer actually does something stupid like trying to use the finger. Once he finishes taking it away from the Necromancer he will beat out of him where he got it from. You and I both know he will rat on Puck in a heartbeat...

Hey, man. You're the guy playing the character with the 36 Intelligence who let the party THIEF cut off your arm with a vorpal kukri. Don't blame me. You actually KNEW better.

The necromancer has been collecting a bag full of rotting fingers for 18-ish levels. How he ended up with yours, I have no idea. Assuming that it truly is yours, which I doubt.

I don't have to convince YOU, or your character, of the truth of that. Just the rest of the party.

Or do you think a million gold is enough to buy a party beatdown on the wizard attacking a poor, helpless rogue?

I have at least that much sitting around.

I have to admit the severing of the arm was hysterical involving a die roll. At one point Nalanthe wanted in on that action as well, but gave way to Puck and Buaed. She figured it was not worth arguing over. But the roll off to see who cut the arm off was sublime.

I agree.

[Detritus]

Or do you think a million gold is enough to buy a party beatdown on the wizard attacking a poor, helpless rogue?

I have at least that much sitting around.
There's going temporarily to be a 22nd century speed freak with an outrageously high SR who might be running low on greenies and would be interested in some cold hard cash. :D

[Blastum]

Lets see hmm...

1) Once I decided I wanted Uther to have the other arm why not let the thief do it (or Buaed it mattered not to the wizard). Besides the way you roll there was a larger probability of you cutting Pucks head off with a vorpal weapon than Uther's. The only real way to keep you from taking one of Uther's fingers was to keep the arm and once I decided I wanted to attach the other one to him I knew there was no stopping Puck if that's what he wanted to do. I will still consol my self with two below.

2) Dr. Jim has yet to actually get one of his necromantic actions to work on a new victim, hell he has trouble controlling the already undead things we find (like the Vamp, though I thought she might get him, but she died to easy for that). So when Dr. Jim's Character finally gets brave enough to try something with Uther's finger, which likely will fail as usual. I am confident that he will let out that Puck gave it to him once Uther starts in on him(even if it was not Uther's finger Dr. Jim's character will think it was, that's good enough for some fun).

3) I think you are sadly mistaken. I think you need to convince Uther not the rest of the party. It is unlikely that they will save Puck for any amount of Gold, remember they are the ones after all trying to raise their sense motive checks to beat you at your tricks not Uther. Uther is (as you pointed out) the smartest character in the group and he knows that Puck will do whatever serves Puck the best. Whether it serves his ends or just his amusement he does what he wants to serve his needs best. That's all any of the party needs to understand. Low scruples and all the motive he needs(lets see what happens). Puck is just a little more devious and has MUUUCH more Malice in him than Buaed when he gets bored, thats all same idea.

I have no need to metagame I have lots of patience, if the finger never surfaces Uther has no need to react. If it does I am sure that I can have Uther get to the bottom of it and find out who double-crossed him. Remember;There are some things you should never do to the party wizard
... If you know what's good for you...

...Next/new subject...
Now I was reading the thread on the Technocrat, that's an ungodly character (or maybe I should call him a Blasphemer because he does not believe in magic). I think I will first try to keep Uther on his good side. That will take a few changes in the spell list but I think I have some stuff to keep him happy. If not I can think of some other things to neutralize the newest threat my goals for Uther (Pinky are you thinking what I'm thinking?). Guesses anyone (and no I don't want him to take over the world, at least not yet)?

Good night Puck, pleasant dreams :crap:......

[Blastum]

God, I do have to admit I do love messing with Puck in the campaign :th_dblthumb2:

I know it's good for riling up the whole party and none of them ever really can decide (without metagaming) who really started what. If if they could I think half would take the others side no matter which of us was in the right at that moment :), just to get back at the other for some supposed wrong.

Just what I would expect from a party of mostly Neutral characters...

[Detritus]

Now I was reading the thread on the Technocrat, that's an ungodly character (or maybe I should call him a Blasphemer because he does not believe in magic). I think I will first try to keep Uther on his good side. That will take a few changes in the spell list but I think I have some stuff to keep him happy. If not I can think of some other things to neutralize the newest threat my goals for Uther (Pinky are you thinking what I'm thinking?). Guesses anyone (and no I don't want him to take over the world, at least not yet)?
He's come down a little in the world, so less ungodly/blasphemous. And he might be willing to listen to multiple offers...

[Origen]

And he might be willing to listen to multiple offers...

If there is any amount of money you want from the party for offing the wizard, I can arrange that, since I view the party as nothing more than a carrying pouch for my collective wealth.

I doubt the wizard can match that offer.

I can't guarantee the party wouldn't come after you afterward, but I can guarantee that I won't lead them in your direction without a warning.

[Dai Oni]

If there is any amount of money you want from the party for offing the wizard, I can arrange that, since I view the party as nothing more than a carrying pouch for my collective wealth.Why do I feel I need to take a bath now?

[Origen]

Besides the way you roll there was a larger probability of you cutting Pucks head off with a vorpal weapon than Uther's.

Now that was just low.

So when Dr. Jim's Character finally gets brave enough to try something with Uther's finger, which likely will fail as usual. I am confident that he will let out that Puck gave it to him once Uther starts in on him(even if it was not Uther's finger Dr. Jim's character will think it was, that's good enough for some fun).

Oh, I'm sure he'll try to convince the party of that. I'm equally sure he'll fail.

It is unlikely that they will save Puck for any amount of Gold...

They've been turning a blind eye for 18 levels for a much smaller amount of gold.

Your character, in fact, has benefitted more from my theft than any other. Or didn't you notice that all the wizard rings and staves somehow end up in your pocket?

... remember they are the ones after all trying to raise their sense motive checks to beat you at your tricks not Uther. Uther is (as you pointed out) the smartest character in the group and he knows that Puck will do whatever serves Puck the best. Whether it serves his ends or just his amusement he does what he wants to serve his needs best. That's all any of the party needs to understand. Low scruples and all the motive he needs(lets see what happens). Puck is just a little more devious and has MUUUCH more Malice in him than Buaed when he gets bored, thats all same idea.

'Tis true, I've never seen a party with so many skill ranks spent in maxing out Sense Motive as this one.

Yet, it is equally telling that nobody has ever beaten me on a Sense Motive check.

Remember;There are some things you should never do to the party wizard ... If you know what's good for you...

Eh. I doubt I could kill you. But I'm also sure you'd find it a little harder to kill me than you imagine.

...Next/new subject...
Now I was reading the thread on the Technocrat, that's an ungodly character (or maybe I should call him a Blasphemer because he does not believe in magic). I think I will first try to keep Uther on his good side. That will take a few changes in the spell list but I think I have some stuff to keep him happy. If not I can think of some other things to neutralize the newest threat my goals for Uther (Pinky are you thinking what I'm thinking?). Guesses anyone (and no I don't want him to take over the world, at least not yet)?

I hope your character does take over the world. That way, I know that the evil overlord has a lousy Spot check.

Why do I feel I need to take a bath now?

Heh.

[Mouser]

What's life without risk?

The likelihood of your character discovering that little bit of information without an EXTREME amount of metagaming is very small.


Even so, I'm thinking that "Void Incarnate is looking awfully tempting...

:D

[Origen]

With present upgrades:

Balance +59
Bluff +63
Climb +54
Disable Device +103
Hide +91
Jump +56
Listen +45
Move Silently +44
Open Locks +77
Search +84
Sense Motive +39
Sleight of Hand +79
Spot +76
Survival +46
Tumble +49
Use Magic Device +38

Ninja Spy gives me Skill Mastery with Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble.

I took Skill Mastery as a Rogue special ability with every other skill except for Use Magic Device.

[ed]

i feel dirty reading this, olde bean.

ed

[Mouser]

I think this character is v. cool.

I liked the dialogue!!

[Detritus]

If there is any amount of money you want from the party for offing the wizard, I can arrange that, since I view the party as nothing more than a carrying pouch for my collective wealth.

I doubt the wizard can match that offer.

I can't guarantee the party wouldn't come after you afterward, but I can guarantee that I won't lead them in your direction without a warning.
*strokes beard thusly*

Well, I haven't picked out an alignment for old Jed yet. We'll have to see about that. :satanlook:

[hidufel]

If there is any amount of money you want from the party for offing the wizard, I can arrange that, since I view the party as nothing more than a carrying pouch for my collective wealth.



Hrmmm Buæd was wondering where that extra 400,000 gold worth of gems and jewlry came from in his backpack... thanks for the investment! his shiney new vorpal +10 glaive thanks you too!

[Origen]

Puck just leveled, and I haven't calculated his advancement in the next level (14 new skill points), nor the additional +10 competence bonus on Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble, but as of last session these were his bonuses:

Balance +69
Bluff +104* (+114 to feint)
Climb +55
Disable Device +105
Hide +145 (+185 with Superior Invisibility)*
Jump +65
Listen +85
Move Silently +80
Open Locks +106
Search +93
Sense Motive +71 (+87 vs. feint)
Sleight of Hand +123*
Spot +123*
Survival +85
Tumble +59
Use Magic Device +64

* +20 Insight Bonus, Epic Skill Focus from relic

[carmachu]

Ouch! What level is he?

[Origen]

25th, total.

Rogue 16, Ninja Spy 7, Ranger 2.

I think I'm going to up Survival for tracking for next session, so I can track things through the air:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#legendaryTracker

[BattleNymph]

So how does the GM make the game challenging at all for such powerful characters? Or is the fun in just stomping through the world?

[Origen]

So how does the GM make the game challenging at all for such powerful characters? Or is the fun in just stomping through the world?

At epic levels, many things become a binary proposition. It's either 0 and 1. Either you can do it, or you can't. Yes, I'm the skillsmeister in the group. But I mostly stay out of combat. My AC is easily 20 behind our lead tank. I probably have 200 or 250 less hit points. The creatures that challenge him will turn me into road pizza in rather short order.

On the other hand, ask him what happened to his glaive when he decided to walk down a hallway I hadn't scouted, yet. When the twinned Mord's Disjunctions traps went off, he came back with a glaive that wasn't glowing, anymore.

[BattleNymph]

Do you find the game challenging at this level?

[Wook]

Do you find the game challenging at this level?
In the games that I've played yes but the challenge becomes very much like a chess match of point/counterpoint between the players and the GM as each makes moves that nullify the other. Either I capture the pawn or I don't.

[Origen]

Do you find the game challenging at this level?

Our primary tank took 373 points of damage in a single round on Saturday. It was enough to send me to -50 or -60-some, and his AC is about 20 higher than mine. I could spend all of my considerable wealth at this point to up my AC maybe ten points higher than his, and I'd still be a fool to go anywhere near melee combat. As a rogue, I'm considering selling off nearly all of my weapons and focusing almost exclusively on spellcasting through scrolls.

Not only do I find the game challenging, I find my contributions in melee combat almost inconsequential despite the fact that I'm dishing out 11 attacks a round with something like 1d4 + 29 + 11d6 sneak attack dice + 2 points of Con damage from each attach (Greater Wounding weapon) + 2 points of strength (Crippling Strike - Rogue special ability) per attack.

AND:

All of my sneak attack damage recurs on the following round because of an epic feat called Lingering Damage.

[Detritus]

As a rogue, I'm considering selling off nearly all of my weapons and focusing almost exclusively on spellcasting through scrolls.
That's probably what I'd do with Puck, too. Just keep the greater wounding weapons and ditch pretty much everything else. Aim for casting a 20th-level scroll one of these encounters...