Gentelmen make youre predictions

[Paulypalooza]

Who do you think is going to the Superbowl?


AFC PLAYOFF SEEDING----NFC PLAYOFF SEEDING
Division winners
1. CHARGERS — 14-2-----BEARS — 13-3
2. RAVENS — 13-3-------SAINTS — 10-6
3. COLTS — 12-4--------EAGLES — 9-6
4. PATRIOTS — 12-4-----SEAHAWKS — 9-7
Wild-card
5. JETS — 10-6----------COWBOYS — 9-7
6. CHIEFS — 9-7---------GIANTS — 8-8


I think it'll be the Chargers and the Saints with the Saints winning a close one. But then again I also thought the Eagles were done when McNabb got hurt.

[Haze]

If the Chiefs beat the Colts I'll be amazed but having watched last night's game I'm beginning to wonder if fate is shining on them.

[ed]

i will never understand how it's possible that three times in one division qualified. but jeez, imagine how joe gibbs must feel!

i expect my giants to fail. colossally. which means the game i really want to see is the chicago d stopping tomlinson.

and i too thought philly was done when they lost mcnabb. hell, who didn't think that?

ed

[Parzival]

Ravens-Eagles.

[carmachu]

No offense ed, but I seriously hope your Giants get absolutely crushed in the first round. There is NO WAY they deserve to be there.

[Wook]

Chiefs over Colts, Philly over the Giants, Seattle over Dallas (OT), Patriots over Jets.

I am not surprised that Philly is doing good right now. Jeff Garcia is a Pro Bowl caliber QB after all. It changes the nature of their offence only slightly to go from McNAbb to Garcia. (Less mobility more passing and more traditional running attack but the differences are not all that big.)

That would mean the Division Round would be:

Chicago at, and over Seattle. (I would not be surprised at an upset but consider it unlikely.) Philly at, and under the Saints. (I would not be surprised at an upset and it is a realy possibility.) Chiefs at and *under* San Diego. (LT for the embarrasment.) New England at, and under, Baltimore. (Low scoring hard fought affair.)

So then the Championship games would be Chicago and New Orleans and Baltimore and San Diego. Baltimore and San Diego I've got no clue and would be happy to see other dance in the Big Game. I want very badly for Chicago NOT to make it to the Super Bowl. Rex Grossman just isn't deserving and I think either of the big AFC D's would rip him apart and make a farce of the game. (Although Chicago's D could make a similar farce of Phillip Rivers or Steve McNair pretty easily too...) I think New Orleans would make for a much better Super Bowl. Especially the prospect of New Orleans vs San Diego. Now THAT would be a pretty game to watch. :D

[ed]

carmachu: none taken. i agree they don't deserve it. they're only there through dint of having been a good team very early on.

ed

[Wook]

Of the other 3 8-8 teams in the NFC the giants are the most capable. They had toughest schedule in the entire league. The only other 8-8 I think you could maybe make an argument for is St. Louis.

[ed]

wook, i'm a giants fan but i'm not blindly partisan about it. yeah, they had a tough schedule--in the early part. the games they blew in the past 2 months though...i mean c'mon, losing to both dallas and philly at home? i'm sorry, but that to me is unforgivable.

they just aren't the same team w/out their first team and the drop-off in talent when you go to the second team is just too much for the giants to be considered elite. they were a damned good team when they have their starters but now, they're a pretty mediocre team w/ a great RB. look at the states on their d the past few month or so.

ed

[carmachu]

wook, i'm a giants fan but i'm not blindly partisan about it. yeah, they had a tough schedule--in the early part. the games they blew in the past 2 months though...i mean c'mon, losing to both dallas and philly at home? i'm sorry, but that to me is unforgivable.


THe last 8 games, the 6 losses are TOTALLY unforgivable. I joked about a different team coming out at halftime, but they literally gave up in the second half in many of those games. Letting folks come back 20+ points in the second half is unforgivable.

Hopefully they get pounded into dirt.....

[ed]

me, i can forgive losing to the saints.

ed

[BattleNymph]

Chargers - Eagles

[carmachu]

Jets-Saints.

[Paulypalooza]

Jets-Saints.

the Jets? your diluting yourself. The Jets wouldn't be able to stand up against Indy, Baltimore or the Chargers

[Wook]

wook, i'm a giants fan but i'm not blindly partisan about it. yeah, they had a tough schedule--in the early part. the games they blew in the past 2 months though...i mean c'mon, losing to both dallas and philly at home? i'm sorry, but that to me is unforgivable.

I understand that but in terms of your other choices for teams at 8-8 there are the Panthers, Packers, and Rams. Personally I think the Giants are the most capable of the bunch and have had the hardest road to get there. The NFC east is a scary ass division.

[ed]

well, i've got a weakness for carolina--john fox was superb as the giants defensive coordinator prior to his head coaching gig. but fair point re: the rams and packers

ed

[Wook]

But if the Giants are a letdown then the preseason darling to make the superbowl for the NFC, aka the Panthers, is the victim of an Implosion Spell as cast by some insanely epic uber Divine Rank X over god thing. :sawink2:

[ed]

funny: in the pre-season, i figured philly was the team to watch out for...until they let the giants kill 'em in the 4th quarter in that first game.

ed

[BattleNymph]

Hey, I just realized this thread was only for gentlemen. I shouldn't be here!


Oh wait, but then neither should Pauly. :D

[Battledragon]

The Chargers and.................awww who cares about the other team!!

Go Chargers!!!!!!!!!!:dance5:

[carmachu]

the Jets? your diluting yourself. The Jets wouldn't be able to stand up against Indy, Baltimore or the Chargers

Indy is a paper tiger. Their like last year's team, except not even as good.

We'll see about the chargers or Baltimore. One game at a time...

[Paulypalooza]

Hey, I just realized this thread was only for gentlemen. I shouldn't be here!


Oh wait, but then neither should Pauly. :D

ouch! an unprovoked attack. I like it.

Now get back in the kitchen and make me a pot pie bitch!

[BattleNymph]

ouch! an unprovoked attack. I like it.

Now get back in the kitchen and make me a pot pie bitch!

Do you mind if it contains your last girlfriend?

[Detritus]

Ravens-Saints.

I think Martyball bites SD in the AFC Championship game. The NFC is wide open -- I could see the Bears succeeding in spite of their QB situation, and also Philly and Dallas have a decent chance to emerge.

[Paulypalooza]

Do you mind if it contains your last girlfriend?

that depends on what you mean. The last woman I slept with on a regular basis yes I mind. She was good and there is always the chance of sex with an ex.

The last woman I called girlfriend? Do whatever ya like to the bitch.

[BattleNymph]

The last woman I called girlfriend? Do whatever ya like to the bitch.

*bakes Pauly a bitch pie*

Here you go hun.

[Haze]

Hey, I just realized this thread was only for gentlemen. I shouldn't be here! Umm... points upwards...

[Wook]

Chiefs over Colts, Philly over the Giants, Seattle over Dallas (OT), Patriots over Jets.

3 out of 4 ain't bad. I was even right to think the seattle/dallas game would be really close. :sacool:

That gives us - My revised prognostications

San Diego vs Indy (San Diego)
Patriots vs Baltimore (Baltimore)
Philly vs New Orleans (Ugh - Uhm - New Orleans - I guess.)
Seattle vs Chicago (Bears - But it'll be close.)

[Starhawk]

Um.... Colts vs Baltimore, NE vs SD.

[Wook]

Oopps.

Hi. My name is Wook and I'm SMART!!!

I'd still pack Baltimore and San Diego.

[BattleNymph]

Oopps.

Hi. My name is Wook and I'm SMART!!!

I'd still pack Baltimore and San Diego.

You're a big enough draw to pack Baltimore AND San Diego?!!!

*revises her opinion of Wook*

[Chris]

Did someone just mention the Pack beating Baltimore or San Diego?

Oh... sorry, my bad... I thought my Packers were in the post season for a sec...

<<pouts>>

Nevermind. Back to your picks...

[Wook]

I did mention a rather impressive level of intelligence.

[Detritus]

My Super Bowl picks are still alive! Of course, the fact that they both had byes last week made that a fairly trivial accomplishment.

[Paulypalooza]

Colts / Ravens - Colts in a close one
Eagles / Saints - Saints
Seahawks / Bears - depends on which Rex Grossman shows up but I'll say Bears
Pats / Chargers - Chargers

[Paulypalooza]

so far i've gone 6 for 6 in my playoff picks. Too bad I didn't have any money on the games.

[carmachu]

Still halfway in it. Saints are still alive....

[Brother Brian]

Chargers / Patriots is a pick'em. San Diego's secondary can be exploited deep, and you don't make a lot of money betting against Brady and Belichick in the playoffs.

Chargers have LT and a fast group of LB who will shut down the short possession passing. Dillion will have to run the ball more than Maroney, because we're better off squaring a shoulders and trying to knock the defender back than out run them.


Seahawks / Bears - Bears have no QB, Hawks have a shakey at best D. Take "Da Bears".

[carmachu]

Chargers / Patriots is a pick'em. San Diego's secondary can be exploited deep, and you don't make a lot of money betting against Brady and Belichick in the playoffs.


Picking the patriots. When we finally see them fail more than they suceed, then I might pick against them.


Seahawks / Bears - Bears have no QB, Hawks have a shakey at best D. Take "Da Bears".

Picking the seahawks. Defense hasnt done so well in this playoff run. Offense has.....

[carmachu]

Looks like D didnt show up at all in the Bears/Seahawks game, but the offenses did.....

[Detritus]

That was a HEE-YUGE TD drive by the Pats right there before the half. 10-14 at halftime looks a lot more manageable than 3-14, especially on the road.

[Paulypalooza]

It never ceases to amaze me how one team can controll the first 28 minutes of a game and then give up a TD just before half time.

[carmachu]

Starting to look like the jets game again vs the Pats. I swear Pats got a TD just before the half as well...

[Detritus]

New England @ Indy for the AFC championship next week. Gutty W by the Pats this afternoon.

[carmachu]

Not as bad as the jets ending. But again, until the Pats completely fall apart, suckers bet to bet against them.

Pats should beat Indy next week.

[Wook]

Wow. Did not expect to see Indy and NE carry the day. That'll make for one huge championship game. Big chance for Payton to show that he's one of the all time greats. Hope he doesn't choke. (again)

And in the NFC: VIVA LA SAINTS!!!

[Detritus]

The thing about Indy this postseason is that they haven't had a lot of expectations put on them this time around. I mean, I even heard talk of Larry Johnson running over the Colts in their first playoff game, and I think hardly anyone was expecting them to go into Baltimore and win. There's a real possibility that they might develop just enough of a chip on their shoulders to play loose enough to carry the day, especially if they come up as a home underdog.

[BattleNymph]

Well, the Chargers fans here are sobbing in their milk tonight. :(

[Wook]

I was really hoping for a San Diego - New Orleans Super Bowl too... :(

Drew Brees vs the team that showed him the door. The combo attack of McAlister-Bush vs Superman. It would have been beautiful.

All I can say right now is that I DO NOT want Chicago to beat New Orleans. Please, please, oh please, don't let it happen!!!

[Brother Brian]

Schottenheimer's an idiot. LT had 100+ on 20 or so carries. He was running all over us. Meanwhile Rivers is looking downright human against the schemes.

So he passes far more than he should.

The Pats take advantage of mistakes, San Diego doesn't.

I thought we were largely out played, and yet still won the game.

[Parzival]

Yet if he'd consistantly run the ball in the fourth quarter, people would be yelling "Martyball", and he'd have lost his job. (Which he still might.)
According to sports radio, it's brilliant when Cowher "takes the air out of the ball", but when Marty tries to burn the clock, he's pilloried.
Had he played Martyball, he'd have won the game. (Barring the bad luck Schottenheimer playoff teams seem to attract.)

Poor bastard's in a no-win situation. (Much like the poor sucker who just volunteered for the Atlanta gig.)

[Detritus]

If the guy who had the Chargers' third pick just goes down after he made the INT, we most likely aren't having this discussion.

[ed]

dang. some good football this weekend.

so...predictions for next weekend? anyone wanna change?

ed

[Dr. Mercury]

Gene Wojciechowski puts forth a compelling case for a Saints cakewalk. People's Exhibits 1 and 2: Rex Grossman and Ricky Manning.

The 'Hawks gave this one away, even if you give Hasselbeck props for playing with broken fingers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2731418&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2



Grin and Bear it: Chicago's winning ugly

http://espn-ak.starwave.com/i/columnists/Wojciechowski_Gene_55.jpg (http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http://search.espn.go.com/keyword/search?searchString=gene_wojciechowski&name=SEARCH_m_archive&srvc=sz)
By Gene Wojciechowski
ESPN.com
Archive (http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http://search.espn.go.com/keyword/search?searchString=gene_wojciechowski&name=SEARCH_m_archive&srvc=sz)

CHICAGO -- So Bears cornerback Ricky Manning Jr. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4540) was standing in front of his locker after Chicago's 27-24 overtime win in the NFC Divisional playoff, and he was talking about how difficult the past 12 months have been for him. I'm a sucker for a heartwarming overcoming-adversity story, so I clicked on the digital recorder.

"I would say the last year has been a drastic change for me as far as signing with the Bears, then with the off-the-field issues [he pleaded no contest to a felony assault charge], getting married, having a kid, moving to Chicago, buying a Bentley ... it's crazy," he said.

It is, isn't it? I was just telling the ball and chain that very thing a few days ago when we were at the Ferrari dealership picking out ostrich leather seats for our new 599 GTB Fiorano.


Oh my gawd. You see, this is the problem with a lot of the Bears. Manning signs a five-year, $21 million free-agent deal and buys one of the most expensive cars on the planet -- and thinks he's had it rough. Bears quarterback Rex Grossman (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6358) watches his team eke out an overtime win against a Seattle Seahawks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=sea) team with a loan officer in its secondary and he says, "Our whole team just played great."http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2007/0114/nfl_u_bears_275.jpg

Jerry Lai/US PRESSWIRE

Brian Urlacher, left, and Lance Briggs can celebrate now, but there was nothing easy about their win over Seattle.

Huh? These are the Chicago Bears (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=chi) we're talking about, right? The team that scored three points in the second half. The team that fumbled four times, that threw one interception (and it could have been more), that starts the wrong guy at tailback (memo to Bears: more Cedric Benson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7180)), that calls a timeout near the end of regulation, which gives the Seahawks a freebie attempt to win the game. Those Bears?

Nothing against my favorite Bear, but Grossman might need a little more padding in his helmet. The Bears didn't play great. They played with heart, with emotion, with desperation at times, but they weren't within an L ride of great. I'm not even sure they were the best team on the field. But they won, and that counts for something, such as their first NFC Championship Game appearance since the 1988 season.

All those outside the Chicagoland area who still think the Bears are the best team in the NFL, please raise your hands. Take your time. I can do a Sudoku or count the ways the Bears could have lost to the Seahawks.

How about this: All those outside the range of Mike Ditka's cigar smoke who still think the Bears are the best team in the NFC, please raise your hands. No rush. Manning Jr. and I are busy discussing various benefit packages for our chauffeurs.

If the Bears have proved anything about themselves in the past two weeks, it's this: They're beatable, maddeningly inconsistent and resilient. But of the four teams remaining in the playoffs, the Bears are the most vulnerable.

They have talent. Talent isn't the problem. The problem is you don't know what you're going to get. Good Rex or Bad Rex? Good defense or Bad defense? Domination or frustration?

"The most important thing is that we won," Grossman said. "I don't care how we do it, I really don't. This is an unbelievable situation we're in right now. We're in the NFC Championship Game. If we win one game, we're in the Super Bowl ... two wins away from having a ring on my finger for the rest of my life."

That's one way of looking at it. I prefer the other way, the one where we hold hands with football reality.

Grossman sees another step toward Super Bowl XLI. I see the Seahawks self-destruct in the fourth quarter, thanks to one of the worst interceptions ever thrown by Matt Hasselbeck (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4416), followed later by what appeared to be a busted play on third-and-1, followed even later by a bobbled snap by Hasselbeck on a failed fourth-and-2 attempt at the Seahawks' 45, followed even later yet by Hasselbeck's failure to unload the ball before getting sacked. Give the Bears enough chances (give any team enough chances) and they'll finally figure it out.

That's what the Bears did in overtime. They held the Seahawks on a third-and-2 from the Seattle 48, watched Ryan Plackemeier (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7988) shankemeier a punt 18 yards, then drove just far enough for Pro Bowl place-kicker Robbie Gould (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7520) to ease a career-long 49-yarder over the crossbar.

"I didn't even watch the end of it," said Gould, who knew it was good when it left his foot.

"I didn't want to watch it," said Grossman, who didn't sneak a peek until after it cleared.

Grossman is the guy who, after the regular-season-ending loss at home to Green Bay, told a Chicago Sun-Times reporter that he didn't exactly over-prepare for the Packers. He might as well have said he wears a cheesehead to bed.

But Sunday at an unfilled Soldier Field (an embarrassing 6,659 no-shows on a surprisingly tame 32-degree January day on the lakefront), Grossman kept his screwups to a workable number. He threw an interception in the fourth quarter to cornerback Pete Hunter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6155), who about a week ago was working as a loan officer. And he almost threw another one three drives later, but tailback Thomas Jones (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5036) knocked the tipped pass to the ground before defensive tackle Rocky Bernard (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6032) could grab it.

Of course, Grossman also threw two long passes that belong in a Canton exhibit. His 68-yard touchdown throw to Bernard Berrian (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6837) in the second quarter and his 30-yarder to Rashied Davis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7445) in overtime were both placed on the receivers' palms. NFL Films will love them in slo-mo.

"He's been roasted the past couple weeks over all different kinds of things," Bears coach Lovie Smith said. "He is our quarterback. When you push him against a wall, he knows how to come out fighting. There was a lot of pressure on him and our entire football team, and I thought they handled it well."

Smith got that part right. There's pressure on the Bears.

"It's scary, man," Manning Jr. said. "It's a scary feeling. We got to win this game. If we lose this game -- if we blow this game -- it's going to feel bad."

Instead, they get to stay home and play America's sweetheart, the New Orleans Saints (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nor), for the NFC championship.

"For us, the Bears, today was just meant to be," Gould said.
Next week, who knows? But that's the Bears for you.

Gene Wojciechowski is the senior national columnist for ESPN.com. You can contact him at gene.wojciechowski@espn3.com.

[Wook]

I'm really hoping for a saint's win. REally, really hoping.

[Paulypalooza]

No doubt in my mind the Saints will beat Chicago. As for the Pats - Colts game I have to give the edge to the Pats. But both teams have been playing far from there best ball the past two weeks and it could be anybodys game.

[Wook]

I don't think it's as cut and dried as that. I think the Saint's O can score enough points to make it happen but I don't know if their D is good enough to keep Chicago from putting up the points...

[Detritus]

The Bears-Saints game probably comes down to which Rex Grossman shows up. I don't think the Bears' D has been all that great during the last few weeks of the regular season, or vs. Seattle, so NO will do some damage against them. I think the Bears squeak by the Saints, if I had to pick.

I'm going to say this is finally the year that the Colts make it out of the AFC, and pick them over NE. We'll see.

[Parzival]

Given how my picks went in the first two rounds...

I hearby curse the Colts and Bears as my picks to win.

[BattleNymph]

Well, I hope the Bears lose just cause I lived nextdoor to Jim McMahon once and he was a jerk. Hows that for tech football. :D

[carmachu]

I'm going Saints, since the bear's vaunted D has just been not so good.

And going Patriots, since voting against them is silly until they start fucking up. Colts have to show something other than the crap they do. Payton still hasnt been good.

[Haze]

Saints over Bears

Colts over Pats.

[silverwhisper]

i agree saints over bears but i think pats over indy.

ed

[BattleNymph]

I think the SB is going to be Pats vs. Bears.

[Detritus]

The Bears are about to start their third straight possession in Saints' territory. For their sakes it might be good to punch this one into the end zone. Although, the way their D has started the game, a 9-0 lead might be enough.

[carmachu]

it was close for a time...but too many mistakes on ther Saints part have given the game up....Bears look like their going to Miami

[Detritus]

The Pats are on the verge of turning their game into a blowout. Indy's got nothing, so far.

[carmachu]

Damn....Payton is choking again......

Looks like Pats vs Chicago....but its only halftime....But I wouldnt bet against the Pats...

[Detritus]

The Colts managed to do the thing where you score at the end of the first half and the start of the second. I don't know if it's going to be enough in the end, but at least it's a game again.

[carmachu]

Well lets see what the Pats do on this drive.

[Detritus]

It's turned into a real barn-burner. That kickoff return by NE after the Colts tied it was pretty big. Dominic Rhodes looks a lot better than I ever saw him look during the regular season. Could turn out to be one of those last team with the ball wins sort of games.

Incidentally, I didn't agree with Simms analysis on the 2-point conversion. If the Pats keep scoring TDs, then at some point you have to make a 2-pointer if you are the Colts. The real argument is that if the Pats kicked 2 FGs, then a missed 2-pointer would mean you are down 27-19, and would need to make a 2-pointer to tie it, whereas if you kept kicking PATs, you could have tied it at 27-27 without needing a 2-pointer. I think I still would have gone for 2 in any case at that point in the game.

[Detritus]

Now each team has an offensive lineman with a fumble recovery for a TD. Crazy.

[carmachu]

Its definately a game now! Tied...

[Detritus]

Yeah, and just when the Colts are looking unstoppable on offense, they bust out the Keystone Kops routine. D'oh!

[Starhawk]

I think the SB is going to be Pats vs. Bears.

i agree saints over bears but i think pats over indy.

ed

I'm going Saints, since the bear's vaunted D has just been not so good.

And going Patriots, since voting against them is silly until they start fucking up. Colts have to show something other than the crap they do. Payton still hasnt been good.

The Pats are on the verge of turning their game into a blowout. Indy's got nothing, so far.



:th_SmlyROFL:


Still grinning after getting home from my doubleheader party. What a GAME!

(And you were all wrong. :) )

[BattleNymph]

:th_SmlyROFL:


Still grinning after getting home from my doubleheader party. What a GAME!

(And you were all wrong. :) )

*eats her crow with good grace*

[Starhawk]

*passes the BBQ sauce and salt*

[silverwhisper]

i could use some of that, myself, starhawk.

congrats, big guy!

ed

[Paulypalooza]

Congrats to the Bears, Colt, and Starhawk

[carmachu]

Its ok, I dont mind being wrong. :D

Looks like a fun superbowl....

[Chris]

Looks like a fun superbowl....

I agree. Though I was surprised to hear just now on the radio that the current point spread in Vegas is Colts by 7.

I peg the Bears to be the more complete team at this point. At least where it really counts.

:shrug:

Wonder what they're seeing that I don't.

Don't get me wrong, I think it could turn out to be a great game. But Colts by 7? That's a hard pill to swallow.

[Wook]

No one thinks Rex Grossman is a good enough QB to lead a team to this promised land and win it. Almost everyone expects him to choke on the pressue and crumble like a clay house in a richtor scale 10 earthquake. :sawink2: I think it'll be closer than that an I think the bears even have the better chance to win but the Colts are sufficiently hot right now to have a chance to win it themselves. This could be one for the ages.

[Chris]

Grossman had a run of low confidence which showed in his craptastic play this season.

But he's had two really good playoff games. Really good. And that I think has given him his confidence back. If that version of Grossman shows up in Miami, I can't see the Bears losing.

[Wook]

Yeah the better D almsot always carries the day. OTOH Grossman has the ability to give away games all by himself.

[Chris]

Yeah the better D almsot always carries the day. OTOH Grossman has the ability to give away games all by himself.

I'm not sure I can agree with that statement considering the evidence is clearly counter to it.

He hasn't given away games.

True. There was a period this year where the Bears were winning despite Grossman, they were still winning for the most part nonetheless.

[Wook]

A quick looksee over at espn.com tells me that in the 2 loses that the bears had this year that he played in shows 3 Int's and 1 Fumble per game. There are times where they won despite him and when they lost it was because of him.

[Wook]

Looking a little further - 5 games with 3 or more Int's and 5 games with a passwer rating of less tahn 80, (aka VERY BAD).

[Chris]

Sure. But again, like I said, they were winning despite him. They went 13-3, for cryin' out loud. Imagine if they didn't have to carry him through that rough spot? It's feasible they could have gone undefeated.

And you know, there are plenty of other quarterbacks (on other teams) who have bad ratings and poor stats in their losing games.

I'm not making excuses for him or anything. Don't get me wrong. He's blown chunks for much of the season.

But look at his last two games: Both tough playoff games that really mattered. He did well. He stepped up. I think he's got his confidence back. And if the confident, not-prone-to-screwing-up Grossman shows up for the big game... That's all I'm saying.

[Detritus]

I'm not sure I can agree with that statement considering the evidence is clearly counter to it.

He hasn't given away games.

True. There was a period this year where the Bears were winning despite Grossman, they were still winning for the most part nonetheless.
You don't necessarily have to have given a game away to have the dubious ability to give them away. Take Grossman's performance at Arizona. Sure, the D/ST bailed him out, but if he plays like that vs. the Colts, the Bears will get killed, and Indy is a lot better than 'Zona. I think that's all Wook's saying.

[Chris]

You don't necessarily have to have given a game away to have the dubious ability to give them away. Take Grossman's performance at Arizona. Sure, the D/ST bailed him out, but if he plays like that vs. the Colts, the Bears will get killed, and Indy is a lot better than 'Zona. I think that's all Wook's saying.

Oh, oh, I can play this game...

If the Manning who played against the Jags a month ago shows up to the Superbowl, the bears will be dining on horse meat for dinner. And those Jags aren't slouches either.

See, picking out a QB's bad day doesn't mean much. And sure, Grossman's had more than his share this year. ;)

Again, I think he's showed he can play decent when he has his confidence. He's building it up this post season. If he does well, and manages the game without screwing up, I think they are stronger than the Colts. At least on paper.

(Caveat: And all of this is coming from a Packers fan. I'm just calling it like I'm seeing it.)

[Starhawk]

The Colts offense will be slowed down by the Bears defense, for sure. But after the last few years of watching the Colts score on the absolute best defenses in the NFL (Baltimore, New England, Tampa Bay in their prime, Denver at the beginning of this season when nobody had scored a TD against them yet), I am confident that we are going to be able to put up a respectable score.

The Bears offense? Um... yeah. I watched their game against the Saints and yes -- once they got rolling, they REALLY got rolling. It was impressive. But a first half that slow in the Super Bowl, and they will be behind -- not ahead. The Colts can stack the box and dare Rex Grossman to beat them... and I think the Colts have a better pass rush and secondary than the Saints.

I think it will be a good, hard-fought, reasonably close game. But I don't see the Bears pulling this one out unless they get a big pile of lucky calls or the Colts start giving away the ball like the Saints did.

[Wook]

I'm not picking a bad game. I'm pointing at his entire season. He's been brilliant at points but his bad days have been far worse than his good days and the two have happened with about the same frequency.

[Detritus]

Oh, oh, I can play this game...

If the Manning who played against the Jags a month ago shows up to the Superbowl, the bears will be dining on horse meat for dinner. And those Jags aren't slouches either.

See, picking out a QB's bad day doesn't mean much. And sure, Grossman's had more than his share this year. ;)

Again, I think he's showed he can play decent when he has his confidence. He's building it up this post season. If he does well, and manages the game without screwing up, I think they are stronger than the Colts. At least on paper.

(Caveat: And all of this is coming from a Packers fan. I'm just calling it like I'm seeing it.)
Um, yeah, let's not forget that the Jags ran for 375 yards in that game. That's really not on Manning. If you want to say that if that Colts run D shows up in the Super Bowl then they'll get killed, that's fine, but again, that's not a reflection on Manning. If you would like to point to a game that Manning nearly gave or did give away, please do, but it wasn't Indy @ JAX. Manning had one turnover in that game vs. JAX, Grossman had six vs. Arizona. I'm sorry, but Rex's lows are a lot lower than Peyton's.

Grossman has been a lot more up and down than Manning. I'm still not sure that we're going to see the good Rex, even after two decent games in the playoffs. He could very well outplay Manning, but it's a reasonable expectation that Rex is a much better bet to cost his team the game than Peyton.

[Chris]

But none of that is news.

Look, I've never said Grossman is better or more consistent than Manning. Heck, I don't even like the guy. I don't know where you're coming from on this.

All I've been saying is that he seems to be performing better as of late and that, if he maintains this level of play (and more importantly, lack of blunders), the Colts are going to be hard pressed to beat the Bears.

[Detritus]

All I've been saying is that he seems to be performing better as of late and that, if he maintains this level of play (and more importantly, lack of blunders), the Colts are going to be hard pressed to beat the Bears.
No, you also disputed the claim that Grossman has a propensity to give games away, as much on the basis that his D has bailed him out a few times this season as anything else. That's definitely a disputable statement, especially the way he's sucked out loud in several games this season.

As for Manning, you were the first one to bring him into this discussion. And used a particularly poor example with which to make your point, I might add.

As to the original point about the betting line, I'm sure the up-and-down performance of Grossman this season has a fair amount to do with the Colts being early favorites. Part of the problem with Grossman is that he can be playing pretty well and then just take a total left turn into bed-crapping territory with essentially no warning. Also, I think the Colts have the edge on record vs. common opponents, which might also be factoring in to the betting line.

[Starhawk]

All I've been saying is that he seems to be performing better as of late and that, if he maintains this level of play (and more importantly, lack of blunders), the Colts are going to be hard pressed to beat the Bears.

Did you watch the first half of the NFC Championship? He was awful.

I will give him credit for having no turnovers. But that is ALL the credit I can give him. Fortunately, it's all his team needed.

[Chris]

I will give him credit for having no turnovers. But that is ALL the credit I can give him. Fortunately, it's all his team needed.
Which is why I said, "and more importantly, lack of blunders". ;)

[Paulypalooza]

I agree. Though I was surprised to hear just now on the radio that the current point spread in Vegas is Colts by 7.

I peg the Bears to be the more complete team at this point. At least where it really counts.

:shrug:

Wonder what they're seeing that I don't.

Don't get me wrong, I think it could turn out to be a great game. But Colts by 7? That's a hard pill to swallow.
The odds makers arn't trying to accurately predict the score of the game but make for even betting on both sides of the ball. Right now most people are saying "Manning has exercised his demons and can't be beat" so they are giving Chi 7 points to get people to bet on them
Yeah the better D almsot always carries the day. OTOH Grossman has the ability to give away games all by himself.
I'm not sure I can agree with that statement considering the evidence is clearly counter to it.

He hasn't given away games.

True. There was a period this year where the Bears were winning despite Grossman, they were still winning for the most part nonetheless.



actually the old saying that offense wins games but defense wins championships is very true in Super bowls. In recent history you have
25-28 everyone over the Bills
35 Ravens over the Giants
37 Tampa over Oakland
40 Pittsburgh over Seattle