Hey car! (Warhammer)

[Parzival]

GW issued their errata, FAQ, and commentary for 7th edition Warhammer a couple of days ago.

<smacks forehead> The clipping controversy returns.
In the commentary they say that clipping is "ugly" and the game is "more fun" if clipping doesn't occur.
(Many of us, of course, disagree with those aesthetic judgments.)

They acknowledge that the rules sometimes make clipping unavoidable, but then state that nobody should feel compelled to follow the rules, if doing so would result in a clip. :dazed052:

Dumbasses.

[Blue Jackal]

Mind explaining clipping briefly? I did a brief Google search, but nothing particularly solid came up.

Feel free not to, but I'm curious.

[Parzival]

Clipping: Failure to maximize frontage of all units in a combat.
So basically you have some dudes hanging off the end on either side, happily cheering on thieir compatriots, and happy they're out of harm's way.

There are a few instances where this can happen.
A charge from either long distance (where a wheel would make the charge fail from insuffecient movement) or from too close (where any attempt to wheel contacts the enemy unit.)
Overrun, pursuit, or "enemy in the way" which are all directional.
Or interposing terrain that makes contacting the entire frontage impossible.

The actual rule is that all units must be maximized if possible. It isn't always.

The argument against clipping is that it's ugly, and that it's unrealistic.
The argument for it is that disallowing clipping makes manuver and guessing distances much less important to the game (and hence the game less interesting, and more about rolling dice than tactics), and noting that GW products aren't exactly paragons of realism.

[Origen]

... and noting that GW products aren't exactly paragons of realism.

Why Parz, are you arguing that realism isn't always the most important aspect of a fantasy wargame?

Shame on you!

[ed]

bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!

[Parzival]

Hush.

Sliding a unit into maximum frontage isn't realistic either.
Having units that can bend and flank is realistic. But that's not "pretty" and GW doesn't like the idea. (In fact, they completely eliminated the related option in this edition.)
So all we're doing is comparing two unrealistic options.

[Origen]

Hush.

My day is complete. Thank you.

[Blue Jackal]

Thanks for the info.

[carmachu]

Origen:

The problem is, basically, GW's "clarification" of its own rules basically says(this is what Parz doesnt say) is that if you actually FOLLOW the GW rules as written, you a bad sport and a cheesy git. SO you should NOT follow the rules, to be a good sport.

Did I mention the new 7th edition rules were JUST released in September? And the actual revisions could have been done on one sheet of paper?

So instead of follow the NEW rules, the FAQ tells you to NOT follow the rules

[carmachu]

Parz:

read the dakka thread

http://www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/6/postid/128158/view/topic/Default.aspx


But I'll pull a couple choice quotes from a good friend or two:

No. It's the usual GW garbage.

First they try to pull some jedi mind trick by explaining that the rules as they were before the FAQ didn't allow declaring charges that you knew would fail. I probably shouldn't be accusing them of any wrong doing here, as you should never attribute to malice what you can explain by incompetence. But regardless of their moronic explaination, they've definitively closed that hole.

Then they say that sliding is definitely against the rules. And if you don't do it you're a bad sport. Let me say that again: they clearly state what the rule is, then tell you that you're a jerk if you follow it.

I give it an F+. Even when they get things right, they make fools of themselves. And now before every single game of warhammer you ever play you'll have to discuss whether or not the other guy is a slider or a clipper. Bravo GW, another job well don.....well another job done.

But at least we're all another dollar richer, as you've passed us the buck!



And

So telling people to ignore their own rules is reasonable to you? Saying following the rules is poor sportsmanship and that's the companies official stance, is reasonable to you? I suggest than that perhaps you yourself aren't particularly reasonable.

These idiots had a perfect opportunity to put the issue to complete rest and they blew it. There's no reason they could not have put this issue to bed for all time, but their either too lazy or too incompetent to do it. Or maybe they just think it's funny. regardless, a crappy job yet again.


And

I'm convinced that GW views their rules and FAQs like term papers, and not products. They figure if you get 90% right, that's an 'A', and it's a job well done, just like a term paper.

The rest of us view these as products, where 10% wrong means utter garbage.

This would explain why they continue to think they're doing a great job and we continue to think their a pack of incompetent baffoons.

Somehow, GW manangement needs to make them realize that their own self imposed measure of success isn't working.

[carmachu]

Its gotten REALLY bad in the 40k side. We had to stop a game and 4 people actually figure out the 2nd grade language style of a rule, where it would have been simpler to say "Always sweeping advance a d6" unless the person gets away, then just conslidate."

The way they had it written was SO conveluted...


So parz, just figure it out in your own store group and ignore everything else. Thats what we do....

[Parzival]

As long as we're having this discussion, we should probably note that GW decided playtesters are optional. And because they tend to gossip about proposed changes, undesirable.

[happykat]

I feel the need to comment here and what I've come up with is this: Meh.

[LagomorphPrime]

Everyone knows playtesters just hamper a desingers ability to make a good game.

[carmachu]

As long as we're having this discussion, we should probably note that GW decided playtesters are optional. And because they tend to gossip about proposed changes, undesirable.


Thats funny, how your so new to the game, yet grasp this concept immediatedly...

Yes, playtesting does seem optional. Oh and they've done away with outside playtesters(even thoughht they rarely listened to them anyway)....so you can imagine how much in house they do...

Their attitude is to do it good enough.....but they dont even get that right.

[Archer]

In my WOW online free trial, none of the monsters have complained that I clipped them...so far.

[Valdier]

Nothing a good squad of unkillable Necrons can't fix...

[carmachu]

Nothing a good squad of unkillable Necrons can't fix...

No such animal.....

[Valdier]

No such animal.....

Sure there are, 40,000 years in the future