The War on Christmas

[Detritus]

*snickers* (http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/02/santa.beer.ap/index.html)

PORTLAND, Maine (AP) -- A beer distributor says Maine is being a Scrooge by barring it from selling a beer with a label depicting Santa Claus enjoying a pint of brew.

In a complaint filed in federal court, Shelton Brothers accuses the Maine Bureau of Liquor Enforcement of censorship for denying applications for labels for Santa's Butt Winter Porter and two other beers it wants to sell in Maine.

The dispute recalls a similar squabble last year when Connecticut told Shelton Brothers it had problems with its Seriously Bad Elf ale.

"Last year it was elves. This year it's Santa. Maybe next year it'll be reindeer," said Daniel Shelton, owner of the company in Belchertown, Massachusetts.

The lawsuit, filed Thursday, contends the state's action violates the First Amendment by censoring artistic expression.

But the state says it's within its rights. The label with Santa might appeal to children, said Maine State Police Lt. Patrick Fleming. The other two labels are considered inappropriate because they show bare-breasted women.

"We stand by our decision and at some point it'll go through the court system and somebody will make the decision on whether we are right or wrong," he said.

The lawsuit was brought by the Maine Civil Liberties Union, which says the beer labels are entitled to First Amendment protection.

"There is no good reason for the state to censor art, even art found on a beer label," said Zachary Heiden, staff attorney for the MCLU.

The label for the English-made Santa's Butt Winter Porter features a rear view of a beer-drinking Santa Claus sitting atop a barrel. The beer's name refers not only to Santa's ample backside, but also to the barrel. In England, brewers once used a large barrel called a "butt" to store beer.

Maine also denied label applications for Les Sans Culottes, a French ale, and Rose de Gambrinus, a Belgian fruit beer.

Les Sans Culottes' label is illustrated with detail from Eugene Delacroix's 1830 painting "Liberty Leading the People," which hangs in the Louvre and once appeared on the 100-franc bill. Rose de Gambrinus shows a bare-breasted woman in a watercolor painting commissioned by the brewery.

In a letter to Shelton Brothers, the state denied the applications for the labels because they contained "undignified or improper illustration."

The state reviews between 10,000 and 12,000 applications a year for beer and wine labels. It typically denies about a dozen a year because they contain inappropriate language or nudity, or might appeal to children, Fleming said.

"Basically, the standard we use is what are people going to see walking up and down a store aisle," he said.

Shelton said his company filed a lawsuit against the New York State Liquor Authority last month after it denied his applications for six holiday-themed beer labels, including Santa's Butt Winter Porter. The state changed its mind but the lawsuit is going forward, he said.

In years past, the company has had labels challenged in a few states, including Ohio, North Carolina and Missouri, he said.

States have the power to regulate alcohol through the 21st Amendment, which repealed Prohibition in 1933. "But I don't know where they get the idea they can ignore the rest of the Constitution," Shelton said.

[carmachu]

But the state says it's within its rights. The label with Santa might appeal to children, said Maine State Police Lt. Patrick Fleming. The other two labels are considered inappropriate because they show bare-breasted women.


In the first part, if they run with that theory successfully with cigerettes, I dont why it cant apply here....as for the second part, *shrug*, if you plan on having it for sale in general public, like a grocery store, what did they expect?

They ran into problems last year, maybe they should have learned something....

[IFMU]

They ran into problems last year, maybe they should have learned something....
And yet that would make sense would it not?

While a bit funny, it is a bit sad at the same point. IMO, sell the crap with santa on the label, I could care less. But, with such a label, it will advertise to kids, so make it unsellable in the locations where young'ens cant see it. Fixes that problem does it not?

[Hitcher]

The lawsuit, filed Thursday, contends the state's action violates the First Amendment by censoring artistic expression.

But the state says it's within its rights. The label with Santa might appeal to children, said Maine State Police Lt. Patrick Fleming. The other two labels are considered inappropriate because they show bare-breasted women.

"We stand by our decision and at some point it'll go through the court system and somebody will make the decision on whether we are right or wrong," he said.

Shouldn't one sip be enough to turn them off beer?

I like they're going to the court. Very philosophical this policeman.

[Parzival]

The health nazis made the same case against cigarette manufactuers. That doesn't make it right.

(I'd guess I'd better buy a Polygamy Porter sign before this becomes a trend.)

[The Bear]

I hate to sound like a broken record here, but whatever happened to the 1st Amendment? The image isn't pornographic, so it isn't against the law for minors to see it. The name isn't obscene. Crude and vulgar, but not illegal to display.

"Bad Elf Ale" from last year is the same.

You can't legally bar publication or public presentation of something like this.

Now, it's in *very* questionable tast, but so are a lot of commercials and a *lot* of TV shows. (And I'm not even talking about the sex vs. violence issue, which is a whole different can of worms.)

What part of "No Law" don't these clowns understand?

[Dr. Mercury]

Bear beat me to the punch. Nudity in and of itself is not obscene. Otherwise, let's just outlaw shower mirrors and be done with it. After all, we need to protect people from being offended. :banghead:

There may be some hope for us in our fight against the Nanny State. Voters in Seattle rejected the city council's proposed strip-club rules, which included bright office-decor fluorescent lighting and a four-foot separation from dancers.

[TinSoldier]

Santa's Butt Winter Porter?

I want some. Porters and stouts are my favorites!

[carmachu]

AH yes, the first ammendment. Where all whiners jump to when logical arguments fail.....

Its not art or anything, their trying to use half naked women to sell their products. In stores where kids will be(I assume they arent like NJ). *shrug* They got smacked down last year for stupidity and apparantly they didnt sober up for this year.

[TinSoldier]

Dude, it's on BEER. Why should kids be looking at beer?

[Mouser]

Maybe the one with bare breasted women was banned because it might appeal to infants.

[Dr. Mercury]

Its not art or anything, their trying to use half naked women to sell their products. In stores where kids will be(I assume they arent like NJ). *shrug* They got smacked down last year for stupidity and apparantly they didnt sober up for this year.
The First Amendment does not distinguish between art and advertising, nor does it distinguish between proper spelling and, say, homonym confusion (e.g., "their"/"they're"). This is why, although I'm a hard-core non-smoker, I do not support restricting liquor and tobacco advertising.

Laws restrict minors' access to these products, and address the matter of adults who supply them to minors, so I'm looking purely at the asinine Nanny State mentality. The best way to deal with advertisers who use half-naked women to sell products, is to not buy the product or to put pressure on stores that stock the product (i.e., the free market in action). If they make false claims about the product, there's always the class-action lawsuit or the consumer-affairs division of the state attorney general's office. Otherwise, please refrain from wiping your ass with the Constitution.

[wolf_mage]

AH yes, the first ammendment. Where all whiners jump to when logical arguments fail...
...as opposed to the various other amendments - say, the second one or fifth - that people also jump to?

Besides - what is your point, you don't like it when people refer to the first amendment? Basically you're just bitching that free speech is ultimately protected.

Its not art or anything, their trying to use half naked women to sell their products. In stores where kids will be(I assume they arent like NJ). *shrug* They got smacked down last year for stupidity and apparantly they didnt sober up for this year.
So...? Clothes do this. Car ads do this (albeit less than they used to). Beer ads also do this all the time, so why not have these ads on the labels?

Sheesh. I think this is one of the first times I've ever agreed with the nanny state idea. It's the parents' job to raise the kids not to fall for manipulative marketing tactics, not the state's.

edit: [[rofl]] at Mouser, that's hilarious...

[Brother Brian]

So where was the outrage when the government killed Joe Camel?

It wouldn't bother me to see it in the stores. On the other hand, I'm not sure the first amendment was designed so that people could walk up to 4 year olds and swear at them.

[LagomorphPrime]

Wow carm, when did you become a commie? First Amendment covers a lot more than art. Last time I checked, it covered "freedom of speech" among several others. Are you saying the 1st only applies to art now? Or are you being a sour puss and just grumping because though you find what their doing deplorable you really have no solid argument against it?

[Water Jess]

I have never seen a specialty beer in Kroger (our grocery store) or Wal-Mart or Meijer. The only place you can get them is in liquor stores, and who is worrying about minors in the liquor store? Kids can't just run in their on their own and buy a pack of gum like they can at the grocery store. SO WHAT if adults buying booze see boobies? They probably love it!

[BattleNymph]

Dude, it's on BEER. Why should kids be looking at beer?

Because it's on the beer bottles conveniently placed on the aisle of the grocery store where the potato chips and sometimes the soda are.


Also, changing the distribution of your beer can cost more money. So it's not easy to just say, "we'll only sell this beer to liquor stores" when your distribution is already set differently.

[carmachu]

Wow carm, when did you become a commie? First Amendment covers a lot more than art. Last time I checked, it covered "freedom of speech" among several others. Are you saying the 1st only applies to art now? Or are you being a sour puss and just grumping because though you find what their doing deplorable you really have no solid argument against it?



Ah yes, and then comes the name calling instead of debates...nice.

They can print any label they want. It does not mean they get to throw it out and we have to accept it. Much like BN just pointed out(again, unless CT is like NJ in regards to all liquior, which is that they are sold in a seperate store), its usually in the isle with chips and soda. Parents dont necessarily have to put up with that crap.

Notice, I dont care about raindeer ale, elf beer or whatever.....dont care. But unless your local shoprite is like spencers, its not needed or necessary for a supermarket.

[Joe Kickass]

Do they not sell dirty magazines or rent rated-R movies in convenience stores in the states?

[Blue Jackal]

Do they not sell dirty magazines or rent rated-R movies in convenience stores in the states?

Dirty magazines in convenience stores (not grocery stores?), yes... of course, all the naughty bits are covered (not sure to what extent.) And R-rated movies are rented at video rental places, though some places you can't even rent straight up porn (and if you can, there's typically a seperate curtained side-room.) And of course, the naughty bits are covered.


I'm going to have to go with Carm with this one, I mean, I do support America becoming less of a sissy girl about nudity, but I think the label/nudity ruling is consistent with our current practices.

[Brother Brian]

My issue is that it should be up to the market to decide what to put in their store. The parents right is to chose a different market.

BTW: Up here in Maine, we don't really have liquor stores. Beer and Wine are in all convenience stores, and hard stuff's in the bigger markets.

[LagomorphPrime]

What if someone put Michaelangelo's David on the label of their food product? That gonna get banned too?

[ed]

we appear to be descending into a new age of victorianism.

carmachu, kids can't legally buy this crap, so who gives a good gorram if it may appeal to kids? this is more government-mandated meddling.

ed

[Kalzazz]

Ill admit, I wouldnt want to drink anything labeled Santa's Butt, but outlawing it seems dumb and evil

[SilverDragon]

Thats just great. Now I have no idea what to get you all for Christmas.

[Joe Kickass]

Apparently. And woe betide anyone who "leaps" to the first amendment... Rights, schmites -- we're talking about boobies, here!!

Stop being such a pussy and hiding behind the constitution. Free market and free speech only applies when it doesn't offend conservative morals.

[TinSoldier]

In Oregon, we have state-run liquor stores but beers of all kinds are available in grocery stores. In my local stores, as I think Battlenymph mentioned, it's right next to the potato chips and other snack foods.

I still don't have a problem with it, though.

Did you even look at the label? There's nothing offensive there! Click again on the news link or do a Google image search for "Santa's butt beer". Sorry, it's not like they are labeling their product and calling it "DP beer" or "Bukkake beer" or anything. I might have a problem with that.

[Origen]

I'm just glad the beer bottles didn't have Santa Claus on them when I was a kid, or I might be an alcoholic today.

Thank God.

*crosses self*