What the hell is wong with Texas?

[Zombie]

Do more family murders/suicides happen in Texas or are they just reported more often since it it Bush's home state?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21950196-2,00.html


Boy shoots mum to buy video games, paintball

From correspondents in Texas

June 23, 2007 01:00am
Article from: The Daily Telegraph

POLICE believe a woman shot dead near her home in Houston, USA, was killed by her own son for her money.

They believe he then used the money to buy video games, stereo equipment and paintball supplies.

Christopher Hughes, 17, of Edcouch, was charged this week with the murder of his mother Laura Hughes Doyle.

Police found the 44-year-old's burned body on May 18 in an abandoned hotel on property she owned north of Monte Alto.

"It's pretty obvious why he did it," County Sheriff Lupe Trevino said.

"The fact that he went on a three-week spending spree after her death is a pretty good indication."

Investigators say Hughes shot his mother three times in the head and at least twice in the torso using a .22-calibre pistol his father had given him as a gift.

His mother had never wanted him to have it.

After the shooting, the teen is accused of dragging her body from the trailer home they shared to a nearby trash heap and setting her ablaze.

From late April to mid-May, Hughes continued to live in the trailer home with his mother's body decomposing only yards away.

"A lot of body mass was lost due to inclement weather and wild animals including vultures around the property," Mr Trevino said.

During that time, the teen spent more than $7000 on entertainment items for his car and video game console.

The money, which came from his mother's bank account, was largely made up of life insurance collected after her late husband's death.

It wasn't clear if her late husband is the teen's father, though they all share the same last name.

Family members finally reported Laura Doyle missing on April 30.

Her son told police she had gone to California but her wallet and some other personal items were found in the house, the sheriff said.

Hughes went to live with family members in the nearby suburb of Victoria but many continued to believe the teen bore some responsibility for his mother's death, Mr Trevino said.

Hughes was arrested and charged with his mother's murder and remains behind bars until his next court appearance on July 4.

If convicted, he could face life in prison.

[Windhaven]

I was channel-flipping the other night and caught a snippet of some drama.

Man is beating the crap out of another guy over a smashed up car. Woman comes up behind and tries to pull him off, without success.

Suddenly, a gunshot. The woman has drawn a gun and fired a warning shot. The man, apparently her husband, is shocked.

"A gun? Where did you get a gun?"

Her reply: "I'm from Texas, dumbass. I had a gun before I could walk..."

So while I won't blame the prevalence of gun ownership, it may be related to the mindset that goes with universl gun ownership. You know, the kind that allows "he needed shooting" as a valid defense in court?

If you arm everyone, then you're arming the idiots as well as the responsible folk, and stupid people do stupid things. And the most dangerous thing in the world is a fool with a gun.

Or maybe we should blame the educational system for producing such a dumbass that thought he could kill her, spend her money wildly, and nobody would notice.

[Origen]

Oh Bear. You did not just go there.

[Strongman]

Do more family murders/suicides happen in Texas or are they just reported more often since it it Bush's home state?


Heh...yeah...

Or maybe it's because of the huge population of the state in comparison to others...;)

[Windhaven]

Oh Bear. You did not just go there.

Actually, I made a strong effort *not* to go there.

I think that everyone has the right to own a gun. But most people who end up getting guns do so for a valid reason. Legal gun owners know how to handle them, and (more importantly) know *when* to handle them.

I wouldn't give a car to every man, woman and child in the country and not expect that some of them are going to be idiots. I wouldn't give a computer and internet access to every man woman and child in the country and not expect some of them to be idiots. Why would we expect it to be any different if you gave a gun to every man, woman and child in a given state?

The difference is that people with computer access will fall prey to hackers, phishers and scam artists. People who don't know how to drive a car safely will end up hurting themselves before they hurt anyone else, likely as not.

Irresponsible use of a deadly weapon, any deadly weapon, has a higher price tag.

There's an age when I'd give my son a pocket knife. Then I'd stand by with the band aids, since I *know* that he'll cut himself within the first day. And it wouldn't be the knife's fault either. It's just the way those things work out.

I'd wait a lot longer before I gave him a gun, and he'd get a lot more supervision. And if/when something went wrong, I wouldn't blame the gun. I'd blame myself, for not providing *enough* supervision.

As a DM I've laid out traps for players that consisted of nothing more than a closed room and a *potentially* explosive mix of materials. I could count on one of the players to panic and do something stupid and blow up the party. And the larger the party, the greater the certainty.

Looking at extremely common access to guns, and a group of "PC's" the size of Texas, the chances of somebody doing something out of panic or stupidity just becomes a statistic. It isn't a question of "if", or even of "when", iot becomes a matter of "how often".

[BattleNymph]

I think it has less to do with universal gun ownership and more to do with a selfish, sick boy.

[Origen]

Actually, I made a strong effort *not* to go there.

Yes, and we've all seen what a model of self-control you are, in that regard.

I think that everyone has the right to own a gun. But most people who end up getting guns do so for a valid reason. Legal gun owners know how to handle them, and (more importantly) know *when* to handle them. I wouldn't give a car to every man, woman and child in the country and not expect that some of them are going to be idiots. I wouldn't give a computer and internet access to every man woman and child in the country and not expect some of them to be idiots. Why would we expect it to be any different if you gave a gun to every man, woman and child in a given state? The difference is that people with computer access will fall prey to hackers, phishers and scam artists. People who don't know how to drive a car safely will end up hurting themselves before they hurt anyone else, likely as not. Irresponsible use of a deadly weapon, any deadly weapon, has a higher price tag. There's an age when I'd give my son a pocket knife. Then I'd stand by with the band aids, since I *know* that he'll cut himself within the first day. And it wouldn't be the knife's fault either. It's just the way those things work out. I'd wait a lot longer before I gave him a gun, and he'd get a lot more supervision. And if/when something went wrong, I wouldn't blame the gun. I'd blame myself, for not providing *enough* supervision. As a DM I've laid out traps for players that consisted of nothing more than a closed room and a *potentially* explosive mix of materials. I could count on one of the players to panic and do something stupid and blow up the party. And the larger the party, the greater the certainty. Looking at extremely common access to guns, and a group of "PC's" the size of Texas, the chances of somebody doing something out of panic or stupidity just becomes a statistic. It isn't a question of "if", or even of "when", iot becomes a matter of "how often".

All of which explains why we regularly see Israelis doing these same sorts of things?

Oh wait! They don't.

Crap.

Does it explain why we regularly see the Swiss doing this sort of thing?

Oh crap! They don't, either.

Come on, Bear. I know it's Friday, but you can do better than this.

[Windhaven]

Do the Swiss give guns to untrained kids? Do the Israelis? No?

There's a difference between universoal military service, and the gun ownership that follows, and giving a handgun to every kid in the state.

Simple question, Origen: Have you, as a DM, ever set the kind of trap I described? A location that's simply an accident waiting to happen?

Did it work? Did they set it off by doing something thoughtless or stupid?

Well IMHO, a culture that supplies guns on that broad a basis, and doesn't require training in the safe and legal use of those guns is an accident waiting to happen.

And I'm not blaming the guns. I'm blaming all the idiots who think that having a gun will "make a man out of him", instead of giving him that gun when he's proven he's man enough to handle it. (Sorry to any ladies who might feel slighted, but this kind of stupidity tends to be a guy thing.)

People are stupid, from time to time. It happens. Hell, our Vice President managed to shoot his hunting partner by simply not thinking where the man was. I don't consider him a stupid man. But guns are one of those things where, when the person *is* stupid, they aren't usually the ones who pay the price. It's somebody else who gets hurt or killed.

So is it such a radical or controversial idea that we try and teach our kids how dangerous guns can be, and teach them how and when they can be properly used, before we allow them unsupervised possession of a gun?

And, in case you missed it, I'm also blaming the educational system for turning out such a dumbass as that kid, who killed his mother, was seen spending her money like a sailor on shore leave, and then though that maybe nobody would notice.

[BattleNymph]

And, in case you missed it, I'm also blaming the educational system for turning out such a dumbass as that kid, who killed his mother, was seen spending her money like a sailor on shore leave, and then though that maybe nobody would notice.

So perhaps I'm missing something here, but who is this universal WE that legally gave an underage child a firearm? I think you're stretching it a bit here. Personally, I think a lot of this is the mother and fathers fault. Not the education system or the government or society. Those are all just convenient scapegoats for parents who are screwed up.

[Origen]

Do the Swiss give guns to untrained kids? Do the Israelis? No? There's a difference between universoal military service, and the gun ownership that follows, and giving a handgun to every kid in the state.

You missed the point, numbnut. You talked about broad gun ownership. Israel and Switzerland have that.

Israel has mandatory military service. Switzerland does not.

So that's a swing and a miss, right off the bat.

Simple question, Origen: Have you, as a DM, ever set the kind of trap I described? A location that's simply an accident waiting to happen? Did it work? Did they set it off by doing something thoughtless or stupid?

I've always preferred intrigue and heroic action to yuck-yuck Keystone Cops traps, personally. The people that I game with, both here and in Oregon, tend to regard anything that might be a trap with the same sort of care that Sun Tzu would apply to the battlefield.

Well IMHO, a culture that supplies guns on that broad a basis, and doesn't require training in the safe and legal use of those guns is an accident waiting to happen.

The facts, unfortunately, do not support that conclusion. Switzerland has no mandatory military service.

Nice try, though. Kudos for trying to wriggle out from underneath the point.

And I'm not blaming the guns. I'm blaming all the idiots who think that having a gun will "make a man out of him", instead of giving him that gun when he's proven he's man enough to handle it. (Sorry to any ladies who might feel slighted, but this kind of stupidity tends to be a guy thing.)

Right, well, all of the mothers killing their children down in Texas don't impress me as more moral or upstanding because they used, say, a bath tub or a knife instead of a gun.

So is it such a radical or controversial idea that we try and teach our kids how dangerous guns can be, and teach them how and when they can be properly used, before we allow them unsupervised possession of a gun?

That's a much different conclusion from, "See what happens when you have gun ownership all over the place?"

And, in case you missed it, I'm also blaming the educational system for turning out such a dumbass as that kid, who killed his mother, was seen spending her money like a sailor on shore leave, and then though that maybe nobody would notice.

That's not stupid. That is cruel and evil. I couldn't care less how intelligent or unintelligent he was. Shooting somebody in the head, burning the body and then spending all of their money on frivolous crap isn't dumb. It's wrong.

[Kalzazz]

Bear, you dingbat, at least do a google 'Texas handgun age ownership' type check real quick before you go gibber epicly

Whether the darkling in question had a gun at age 17, the State of Texas in specific thinks he wants to wait till hes 18

So how in blazes is it the State of Texas' Lax Laws here? Wasnt the State of Texas that shot the guy

And for that bloody matter, he shot his mom multiple times. You really think he such an amazingly low int stat he didnt think that would kill her? So suuuuuuure, lets heap firearms training on him, obviously he just didnt realize guns could hurt

This wasnt an accident. It was an intentional shooting. All training would do is make him a better shot

[ldygmr1]

Um... I can't believe I am saying this but.....

Sybil has a point. Texas DOES get in the news A LOT with family killing family. And as someone who lives here and gets to hear and read the stuff that DOESN'T get national attention, I gotta say, it's a little scary.

I live in psycho state. And I always thought California would get that title.

[BattleNymph]

Um... I can't believe I am saying this but.....

Sybil has a point. Texas DOES get in the news A LOT with family killing family. And as someone who lives here and gets to hear and read the stuff that DOESN'T get national attention, I gotta say, it's a little scary.

I live in psycho state. And I always thought California would get that title.


There can be more than one psycho state. Welcome to my world! :D

[carmachu]

I live in psycho state. And I always thought California would get that title.


Now, CA is the wackjob state. You guys are the crazy psycho one....get it straight.

[Misereor]

You missed the point, numbnut. You talked about broad gun ownership. Israel and Switzerland have that.
Israel has mandatory military service. Switzerland does not.
So that's a swing and a miss, right off the bat.

Not by much.
The Swiss Home Militia consist of around a half million members (IIRC), all of whom keep their weapons at home, and all of whom have military training. This out of a popolation of seven million. If it's not universal, it's pretty damn close...

[Origen]

Not by much.
The Swiss Home Militia consist of around a half million members (IIRC), all of whom keep their weapons at home, and all of whom have military training. This out of a popolation of seven million. If it's not universal, it's pretty damn close...

I stand corrected:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia

Switzerland
One of the most famous and ancient militias is the Swiss Armed Forces. Switzerland long maintained, proportionally, the second largest military force in the world, with about half the proportional amount of reserve forces of the Israeli Defence Force, a militia of some 33% of the total population. Article 58.1 of the 1999 Swiss constitution provides that the armed forces (armee) is "in principle" organized as a militia, implicitly allowing a small number of professional soldiers. In 1995, the number of soldiers was reduced to 400,000 (including reservists, amounting to some 5.6% of the population) and again in 2004, to 200,000 (including 80,000 reservists, or 2.7% of the population). However, the Swiss Militia continues to consist of the entire adult male population, with voluntary participation by women and children, required to keep an automatic rifle and ammunition at home and to periodically engage in combat and marksmanship training.

[Misereor]

Switzerland long maintained, proportionally, the second largest military force in the world, with about half the proportional amount of reserve forces of the Israeli Defence Force


Tangent.
One of the things I seriously liked about Israel when I was on holiday in Eilat, was that every single female I hit on knew how to handle an M16.
God, what a turnon... :D

[ldygmr1]

Tangent.
One of the things I seriously liked about Israel when I was on holiday in Eilat, was that every single female I hit on knew how to handle an M16.
God, what a turnon... :D

Yeah, that's funny because HERE, the fact I can competently handle a shotgun, rifle and handgun .... not something guys find impressive.

[SD Anderson]

Do more family murders/suicides happen in Texas or are they just reported more often since it it Bush's home state?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21950196-2,00.html


Boy shoots mum to buy video games, paintball

From correspondents in Texas

June 23, 2007 01:00am
Article from: The Daily Telegraph

POLICE believe a woman shot dead near her home in Houston, USA, was killed by her own son for her money.

They believe he then used the money to buy video games, stereo equipment and paintball supplies.

Christopher Hughes, 17, of Edcouch, was charged this week with the murder of his mother Laura Hughes Doyle.

Police found the 44-year-old's burned body on May 18 in an abandoned hotel on property she owned north of Monte Alto.

"It's pretty obvious why he did it," County Sheriff Lupe Trevino said.

"The fact that he went on a three-week spending spree after her death is a pretty good indication."

Investigators say Hughes shot his mother three times in the head and at least twice in the torso using a .22-calibre pistol his father had given him as a gift.

His mother had never wanted him to have it.

After the shooting, the teen is accused of dragging her body from the trailer home they shared to a nearby trash heap and setting her ablaze.

From late April to mid-May, Hughes continued to live in the trailer home with his mother's body decomposing only yards away.

"A lot of body mass was lost due to inclement weather and wild animals including vultures around the property," Mr Trevino said.

During that time, the teen spent more than $7000 on entertainment items for his car and video game console.

The money, which came from his mother's bank account, was largely made up of life insurance collected after her late husband's death.

It wasn't clear if her late husband is the teen's father, though they all share the same last name.

Family members finally reported Laura Doyle missing on April 30.

Her son told police she had gone to California but her wallet and some other personal items were found in the house, the sheriff said.

Hughes went to live with family members in the nearby suburb of Victoria but many continued to believe the teen bore some responsibility for his mother's death, Mr Trevino said.

Hughes was arrested and charged with his mother's murder and remains behind bars until his next court appearance on July 4.

If convicted, he could face life in prison.

More reported Texas cases I suspect. I'm aware of a case a couple of miles from where I grew up. Two 13 year olds wanted money, one realized there was a life insurance policy on his Mom. The rest made me very sick on reading it.

[Kalzazz]

I just reread

This happened near Houston

Things like this should stay well away from Houston, Houston has enough troubles with normal criminals

[LagomorphPrime]

'cuz it's full of blacks.

[Grendel]

The vastly lower percentage of gun violence in Switzerland and Israel compared to Texas has nothing to do with military training and everything to do with culture. Texans know that guns are deadly. That's why they use them as the preferred method of killing down there. I would bet that the percentage of Texans that know how to handle a weapon properly is higher than just about any other state. And if that is true, blaming training is silly.

Now if you want to blame a culture in which women are little better than second-class citizens and the typical male is a macho asshole on a level rarely seen outside of cowboy country, then maybe you are a little closer to the truth of it.

[Parzival]

Grendel, exactly how much time have you spent in Texas?

[LagomorphPrime]

C'mon Parz, it's common knowledge that Texas is nothing but hicks and rednecks and jocks.

[Kalzazz]

And in some parts of Texas the reality is scarier than the stereotype by far

And who in blazes went and put tropical rainforest in Texas? Everyone knows its supposed to be sun baked plains with tumbleweed

Oh, and the everything is bigger in Texas obviously includes moths. Just now something was going thump thump thump against the door, so I open the door and a moth with about a 8in wingspan flies in

Thats a moth that can go 'Here, bat bat bat!'

However, the Drive Friendly signs seem to work, as people in slow vehicles often will pull over on the shoulders to let other pass

[BattleNymph]

C'mon Parz, it's common knowledge that Texas is nothing but hicks and rednecks and jocks.

So which one are you?

[Kalzazz]

Well played BN

[LagomorphPrime]

I'm the best parts of all 3 combined. Squared.

[carmachu]

Grendel, exactly how much time have you spent in Texas?

Hate to tell you, listening to LG's stories, he's really not that far off the mark.

[Parzival]

Listening to my stories about Kentucky would make you think that the only types of folks around are either welfare queens with shiny teeth and expensive hair, or dirt-poor folks from appalachia.
But it wouldn't be an accurate impression.

<shrug> I see New York pictured all the time on television and at the movies. And I've met a couple New Yorkers that conformed to the stereotypes (cocky, loud, overbearing assholes with too much money for their own good).
But for me to make condecending remarks and generalization about New York, based solely on those indirect impressions, would be nothing less than asinine.

[carmachu]

Hasnt stopped you before in other topics.

[Water Jess]

Listening to my stories about Kentucky would make you think that the only types of folks around are either welfare queens with shiny teeth and expensive hair, or dirt-poor folks from appalachia.
But it wouldn't be an accurate impression.

Oh come on now. I'm sure I can give them MUCH better redneck stories than that!

[Misereor]

Yeah, that's funny because HERE, the fact I can competently handle a shotgun, rifle and handgun .... not something guys find impressive.

That's just because they have tiny egos. Pistolwhip them a few times, and they'll come around out of naked fear.

By the way, speaking of stereotypes, which state is "This one time, at band camp..."

[David Argall]

Can't find a breakdown by state into particular types of murder, but the general Texas murder rate is about 10% above the national rate, and only in the teens in a ranking by states. That would suggest that Texas is only high-average in the subcategories as well.

[Windhaven]

First, I stand corrected w/regards to Swiss military service. It isn't mandatory, and I was mistaken when I said it was.

But while a lot of people there have guns, pretty much *all* of those people have military training. And that means more than simply learning how to clean store and fire a rifle. It also includes discipline in the use of the gun.

And I never intended to say that broad gun ownership was to blame for firearms related crime. In fact, I strenuously emphasized that I was *not* saying that or anything like that. But somehow when I say "no", Origen keeps reading "yes".

Broad gun ownership without equally broad training and discipline in the safe use of guns will contribute to abuse of guns.

Now I wouldn't be surprised if Texas had a higher percentage of people trained and familiar with the responsible ownership and use of guns than other states. In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't. But the question is, is the ownership of or access to guns more common than the training?

If we gave every kid in America a set of keys to their parent's car, would the incidence of accident, reckless driving and vehicular assault rise? Damned right it would, and it doesn't take a math major to see that. It's a statistical certainty.

So why would it be any different for any other potentially dangerous tool?

In this specific case, the gun didn't legally belong to the kid. But he had access to it, which means that the parents weren't storing it safely. So yeah, the parents bear some fault here.

My "blame the system" wasn't for not teaching the kid responsible use of a gun, nor was it for not teaching the kid right and wrong. Those are the respobsibilities of the family.

No, I was just blaming the schools for not teaching the dumbass kid enough to know that he would get caught if he tried anything as lame ass as he did. Fear of punishment is only a deterrent if the perp' is smart enough to figure out that he'll get punished.

Now I know that guns are a hot topic, but have we reached the point where they're like the infamous "N" word? You can't even come anywhere close to talking about them? Come on, read the forum disclaimer: "Not for the thin skinned!"

If you can't handle me even talking about the statistical certainty of more guns in the hands of dumbasses equalling more people doing dumbass things with guns, then we're all in sad shape, and the PC nuts have taken over.