Discussion for both Black Ops Cells

[Origen]

This isn't so much a poll as a question. A couple of people have spoken to me about the issue of BAB requirements in the Black Ops advanced classes. Even with the use of the Blood and Guts 2 transitional classes, like the Recon Training and Infantry Training, most people aren't going to get to their desired advanced classes - Navy SEAL, Recon Sniper - until 10th or 11th level.

I had originally foreseen people arriving at these destinations at 8th or 9th level.

There are two possible solutions:

1. Move the BAB of all transitional advanced classes to +1 per level, like the Soldier or Strong Hero.

2. Lower the BAB requirements of the advanced classes.

I gave Mouser a little bit of shit when he first raised this problem, and I'd like to apologize for that.

[BattleNymph]

I vote lower the BAB requirements for the Advanced classes. That seems the easiest way to address it.

[Mouser]

I'm of the 1 to 1 BaB, rather than lowering the BaB requirements (or eliminating them altogether), and I trust that Origen will be liberal with the "virtual feats" as he has in the past.

It makes it a little more difficult to plan for the future, but it's also really cool when it happens, kind of like getting a present from the GM.

[Dr. Mercury]

I'm in favor of altering the BAB progression, possibly through advanced training. We received a free feat and stat bumps with basic, so maybe similar benefits for advanced and spec ops training are in order? And, if I understand Mouser, perhaps some classes' virtual feats (e.g., Fast Heroes' evasion ability) can satisfy feat and/or advanced class prerequisites?

[Blastum]

I am also in favor of the 1 for 1 BAB at each level or for bonus BAB for special training. I guess which ever since they both come out to about the same thing. I am less in favor of lowering the special class requirements as the classes would suffer from the PC's not having a high enough BAB to be able to hit (for my character at long range) without all that BAB or to do what there special training was for. In other words so you’re a sniper but you can't shoot worth a damn passed the 4th range increment (-8 to hit) because it makes your bonus to hit negative. That would also suck IMO...

With a the d20 modern H&K-PSG1 sniper rifle assuming you have far shot 4 range increments is not quite 200 yds. I can hit at least the 8 ring at 200 yrds with my hunting rifle and a cheap 3-9x40 Bushnell scope. That isn't a live moving target but I have little trouble hitting a rabbit at that range and have hit coyotes and other varmint or game animals out to 400 yards and I definitely am not even close to as good as a trained sniper.

OK, this got me to look at all of the range increments. Now I am totally irritated by the range increments for the weapons listed in the basic d20modern book max range for the H&K sniper rifle is 10 range increments of 90ft or 900ft or 300 yards with far shot that is 450 yards for the max range of the sniper rifle. A real H&KPSG1 is rated for 600 meters with the old crappy 6X scope that it came with. A Remington 700 in .308 (which is what the US military uses as a standard sniper rifle with a few better parts) has a rated effective range of 800 yards and it is usually more accurate than the H&K (H&K is rated as 1 MOA which is great for a semi-auto, Military Rem700's are 1/2 MOA or better).

Looks like the snipers will have to get real lucky to hit out past about 200 yds. Oh well I could have my character go for an assualt class. :(

[Origen]

I've thought about this a great deal, and I think I'm going to go with lowering the BAB requirements of the final advanced classes. I think four or five of you already know. Those of you that know what you want to do, please send me the builds you plan on - at this time - and I will deal with the BAB requirements on a case by case basis.

The reason for this is:

If I give the transitional advanced classes a 1 for 1 BAB, that is going to leave those people who go into non-combat oriented routes at a substantial disadvantage. It will effectively make everyone in the combat route into Strong heroes and everyone else will have the lowest or almost the lowest possible BAB in the game. It also devalues the Infantry training.