US Soccer headed to Confederations Cup final

[Grendel]

Woohoo!

The US National Soccer team defeated (http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/9718854/U.S.-upsets-Spain-to-reach-Confederations-Cup-final) #1 ranked Spain, who hadn't lost a game since 2006 and who hadn't been scored on in 5 games. The 2-0 win pits them against either defending champs Brazil or the host country, South Africa.

This is the first appearance in the final of a FIFA-event for the US team and a huge accomplishment.

[carmachu]

The problem is....its soccer. Nobody really cares.

[Grendel]

More kids play soccer than any other sport in America (because boys and girls can both play; 44% of soccer players are girls). And every year the sport gets more and more popular. It is the fastest growing sport in the U.S. (http://usa.usembassy.de/sports-soccer.htm) Clearly a hell of a lot of people care.

[LagomorphPrime]

If you did a "man on the street" type of interview asking people to name 4 major sports, I bet soccer would almost never get mentioned. Or ask people to name, oh, say 3 US pro soccer teams. Bet you'd stump almost every single person.

Yes, kids play a lot of soccer and parents take their kids to soccer, but nobody gives a shit once they grow up in America.

[carmachu]

What Laggy said. Hell I played soccer growing up, and so does sarah. But no one cares about the pro scene for the most part Grendel.

Dont get me wrong, thats impressive, but ultimately you'll see a small article maybe in the back of the paper....ultimately the public doesnt care about it as much as the other pro sports.

[BlueNinja]

The US could win the world championship in soccer and no one in the US would give a flying rat's ass.

Including me, but I couldn't tell you who won the Super Bowl or World Series either. :D

[nermal2097]

Woohoo!

The US National Soccer team defeated (http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/9718854/U.S.-upsets-Spain-to-reach-Confederations-Cup-final) #1 ranked Spain, who hadn't lost a game since 2006 and who hadn't been scored on in 5 games. The 2-0 win pits them against either defending champs Brazil or the host country, South Africa.

This is the first appearance in the final of a FIFA-event for the US team and a huge accomplishment.

congratulations and good luck in the final. Whilst America might not give a dead rat's ass, soccer, or to give it its proper name Football, is one of the biggest sports in the world with top players being sold for 80m euros+.

[Brother Brian]

USA USA USA USA


And yeah, I don't really care all that much.

[nermal2097]

Good Luck against Brazil.

You are going to get your arses kicked by the way, but good luck anywho.

[Brother Brian]

Good Luck against Brazil.

You are going to get your arses kicked by the way, but good luck anywho.

According to ESPN, Spain was supposed to kick our asses too.

But that's OK, your bitterness that a team comprised of Amercians not good enough to play our real sports, is still better than most of your teams is completely understandable.

:sagrin:

[Grendel]

More proof that ignorance is bliss.

[carmachu]

More proof that ignorance is bliss.

We'd actually have to care first.

[Brother Brian]

You know Grendel, I've been hearing about how Soccer is the fastest growing sport in America since the World Cup was in LA in what 1984. So 25 years later, if it's been growing so damned fast, why isn't it the biggest sport in the US?

[Grendel]

We'd actually have to care first.
Lots of people don't care. I get that. And I don't care about their interest level. It is the ignorance that tends to bother me. I mean really. Not good enough to play real sports? The overall fitness level, endurance, and athletic ability required to play pro soccer is far greater than other pro sports.

[Grendel]

You know Grendel, I've been hearing about how Soccer is the fastest growing sport in America since the World Cup was in LA in what 1984. So 25 years later, if it's been growing so damned fast, why isn't it the biggest sport in the US?
By what metric are you calculating "the biggest"? More people in the U.S. play soccer than any other sport. Is it the most popular sport watched on TV? Nope. But you've got a majority of the population that grew up following other sports. People only have so much time to watch sports on TV. Even I don't watch soccer on TV much. Mostly the World Cup and other major events, with the very occasional MLS game. But I don't watch any other sports either, except for March Madness every year.

[Brother Brian]

Lots of people don't care. I get that. And I don't care about their interest level. It is the ignorance that tends to bother me. I mean really. Not good enough to play real sports? The overall fitness level, endurance, and athletic ability required to play pro soccer is far greater than other pro sports.

Dude, seriously, if you couldn't read that post entirely as snark, you are REALLY hanging out on the wrong forum.

But go ahead, and get your panties in a twist about it.

[Brother Brian]

By what metric are you calculating "the biggest"? More people in the U.S. play soccer than any other sport. Is it the most popular sport watched on TV? Nope. But you've got a majority of the population that grew up following other sports. People only have so much time to watch sports on TV. Even I don't watch soccer on TV much. Mostly the World Cup and other major events, with the very occasional MLS game. But I don't watch any other sports either, except for March Madness every year.

Oh, how about any of the following metrics:

TV Viewership
Live Attendance
Merchandising
Name Recognition of Best Players, (Ie, I don't watch the NBA, but I can name at least 20 Current NBA players. I can name exactly 1 current Soccer player, and maybe 10 all time.)

I get that because it is an inexpensive sport, youth soccer is huge. Yet those kids, like me, who played youth soccer in the 80's, are the same people telling you that the game lacks interest. It's a crappy metric to go by, that kids prefer soccer to doing nothing.

[Grendel]

Oh, how about any of the following metrics:

TV Viewership
Live Attendance
Merchandising
Name Recognition of Best Players, (Ie, I don't watch the NBA, but I can name at least 20 Current NBA players. I can name exactly 1 current Soccer player, and maybe 10 all time.)
Everything you just listed is related to viewership. Name recognition and merchandising are directly tied to how many people watch the games. So, for you, biggest = most watched. I don't agree. Outside of schools and organized leagues, almost nobody plays football. But it is probably the most watched sport on TV. Same thing with baseball. Viewership alone is a poor metric.

[Brother Brian]

Everything you just listed is related to viewership. Name recognition and merchandising are directly tied to how many people watch the games. So, for you, biggest = most watched. I don't agree. Outside of schools and organized leagues, almost nobody plays football. But it is probably the most watched sport on TV. Same thing with baseball. Viewership alone is a poor metric.

I'm sorry, did somebody replace your brain with a potted plant?

We're arguing whether or not a sport is popular.

You try to get all deceptive and prove us wrong because more americans play soccer than any other sport. (In organized leagues anyway, since counting how many pickup basketball games are going on in the country would be impossible.)

It's deceptive because the majority of these soccer players are youths, and have no other choice for organized sporting activity during the fall season. You ignore the mitigating factor that makes soccer a popular choice amoung towns, that being that it's pretty damned cheap to run.

So your argument is that Soccer is popular because kids with no other options, play soccer.

You dismiss viewership as a metric, because viewership is impacted by the fact the in the US we were raised watching other sports. (Wait, except we were the generation that played soccer....so we were exposed to soccer in our youths, and still, by and large, ignore it in our adulthood.)

You dismiss anything else as being related to viewership.

So despite nobody* watching it, nobody being able to name players (except of course David Beckham, who we know bends something and fucks a Spice Girl), nobody talking about it around the water cooler, even as we go to the finals of some tournament which I am lead to believe may be minorly important to the soccer world, not being mentioned on sports radio, (except ESPN, which is desperate for anyone to watch the game), nobody betting on it, and basically which is known about only because ESPN is desperatly trying to raise some sort of Jingoistic, 1980 Lake Placid response to, you contend the sport is popular.

Seriously, do you feel like a shmuck yet?

I make no argument that soccer players are not incredible athletes, who require a significant amount of stamina, hand/eye cowardination, speed, and acting ability.

I do make an argument that in the US, the following sports are more relevant than Soccer:

The NFL
NASCAR**
The NBA
MLB
College Basketball
College Football
Tennis
Golf
The NHL
College Hockey
Poker**
Boxing
Mixed Martial Arts
The WNBA

Right, but kids don't Box, so I guess that's irrelevant.

*in the US, I do understand that in the rest of the world, Football as you call it is insanely popular.
**If you want to argue that making left hand turns at high speed and playing cards shouldn't be called a sport, I will conceed. It is still however, more relevant in the US than soccer.

[Grendel]

We're arguing whether or not a sport is popular.
I said that soccer is the fastest growing and most played sport in the U.S.. Then you asked why it isn't "the biggest". So I asked what you meant by that. And your answer was "watched on TV the most". I disagree with viewership as the SOLE metric of popularity for a sport. We can't even agree on a definition of "popular". So there is very little to argue about at this point.

You try to get all deceptive and prove us wrong because more americans play soccer than any other sport. (In organized leagues anyway, since counting how many pickup basketball games are going on in the country would be impossible.)

I'm not trying to prove anything at this point. I'm simply questioning viewership as the sole metric of a sport's popularity. When hockey disappeared for a year due to the player strike, nobody cared. Viewership went to zero by default and almost nobody was playing the game. There were dozens of articles in various sports media asking why people weren't more upset about the loss of a sport that people clearly enjoyed watching on TV. What does that say about the popularity of hockey?

It's deceptive because the majority of these soccer players are youths, and have no other choice for organized sporting activity during the fall season. You ignore the mitigating factor that makes soccer a popular choice amoung towns, that being that it's pretty damned cheap to run.
And cross country is free. Cost has very little to do with it. The reason soccer is so popular is because it is fun to play and almost anyone can play it. Unlike football.

So your argument is that Soccer is popular because kids with no other options, play soccer.
Nope. That is not my argument. Kids have plenty of other options. None of them are as fun or as inclusive as soccer.

You dismiss viewership as a metric, because viewership is impacted by the fact the in the US we were raised watching other sports. (Wait, except we were the generation that played soccer....so we were exposed to soccer in our youths, and still, by and large, ignore it in our adulthood.)

I'm not dismissing viewership in the slightest. I am questioning using ONLY viewership to gauge the popularity of a sport.

You dismiss anything else as being related to viewership.

I didn't dismiss anything. I said that the other items you mentioned were related to viewership. And they are. If they didn't show the games on TV, nobody would know who the players are and nobody would buy the merchandise. So you basically listed the same metric multiple times.

So despite nobody* watching it, nobody being able to name players (except of course David Beckham, who we know bends something and fucks a Spice Girl), nobody talking about it around the water cooler, even as we go to the finals of some tournament which I am lead to believe may be minorly important to the soccer world, not being mentioned on sports radio, (except ESPN, which is desperate for anyone to watch the game), nobody betting on it, and basically which is known about only because ESPN is desperatly trying to raise some sort of Jingoistic, 1980 Lake Placid response to, you contend the sport is popular.
What I contend is that viewership alone is not a true measure of how popular a sport is. I think it is certainly important. But the number of people who actually play a sport is important as well.

Seriously, do you feel like a shmuck yet?
No. But the way you are freaking out over a simple question, YOU probably should.

[Brother Brian]

Your point is that "a hell of a lot of people" care. (Your words.)

You've demonstrated no proof of that.

[Grendel]

Your point is that "a hell of a lot of people" care. (Your words.)

You've demonstrated no proof of that.
No proof according to your own personal metric, which means diddly squat. Soccer is the most played sport in the country. So clearly tens of millions of people care about it. But since they aren't all sitting in front of a TV watching it every week, nobody cares. :rolleye2: I guess nobody cares about chess or surfing or volleyball or track and field or yoga or jogging either. I don't remember seeing anyone with a Rodney Yee doll or a Gary Kasparov rookie card. Clearly unpopular.

[Starhawk]

I watched the second half of this game, and it was pretty spiffy.

I really don't enjoy bush-league soccer, but the World Cup-caliber teams put on matches that I enjoy.

(Also, I'm moving this thread to Thunderdome.)

[Brother Brian]

No proof according to your own personal metric, which means diddly squat. Soccer is the most played sport in the country. So clearly tens of millions of people care about it. But since they aren't all sitting in front of a TV watching it every week, nobody cares. :rolleye2: I guess nobody cares about chess or surfing or volleyball or track and field or yoga or jogging either. I don't remember seeing anyone with a Rodney Yee doll or a Gary Kasparov rookie card. Clearly unpopular.

Compared to sports in America, yes, yes they are unpopular.

The game of international soccer is unpopular in the US.

You can't deal with that, because it means you're an outlier.

Get over it.

[Brother Brian]

I watched the second half of this game, and it was pretty spiffy.

I really don't enjoy bush-league soccer, but the World Cup-caliber teams put on matches that I enjoy.

(Also, I'm moving this thread to Thunderdome.)

But, in Thunderdome we're supposed to be nice to each other.

Pouts.

[Grendel]

Compared to sports in America, yes, yes they are unpopular.

Again, according to your personal ridiculous standard.

Some 15 million people (http://www.yogajournal.com/advertise/press_releases/10) in America do yoga with another 10 million who plan to try it. Some 18 million claim to be very or extremely interested in yoga. A mere 12% of the country who practice or claim they will practice. Only 17% of the country who are at least VERY interested in it. Yes. Clearly unpopular.

Go research online chess and then tell me that chess is unpopular.

The game of international soccer is unpopular in the US.

You can't deal with that, because it means you're an outlier.

Get over it.
You don't even know what the hell you're talking about. International soccer is VASTLY more popular in the US than our own professional soccer league. Millions of Italians, Spanish, Mexicans, Brazilians, Germans, Russians, and other 1st or 2nd generation Americans watch international matches all the time. If you have cable TV or satellite, check your guide and see how many soccer games are available on the various channels and note how many of them are international games. The quantity alone will enlighten you a bit.

Get over it? Get over what? Your complete and utter ignorance? OK. I'm over it.

Now I certainly wish our own league had a higher caliber of player compared to long-established foreign leagues, such as Britain, Italy, and Germany. But it gets better every year.

And really, an outlier? THAT is going to bother me? I was a D&D player when I was 10. I was on the fencing team in high school. I proudly told stories about my LARP events at work. I do what I like and I don't give a shit what other people think.

[silverwhisper]

BB quoth:
but in thunderdome we're supposed to be nice to each other.
[blink]

when the hell did det institute that rule?!

[Brother Brian]

Again, according to your personal ridiculous standard.

Some 15 million people (http://www.yogajournal.com/advertise/press_releases/10) in America do yoga with another 10 million who plan to try it. Some 18 million claim to be very or extremely interested in yoga. A mere 12% of the country who practice or claim they will practice. Only 17% of the country who are at least VERY interested in it. Yes. Clearly unpopular.

Go research online chess and then tell me that chess is unpopular.


You don't even know what the hell you're talking about. International soccer is VASTLY more popular in the US than our own professional soccer league. Millions of Italians, Spanish, Mexicans, Brazilians, Germans, Russians, and other 1st or 2nd generation Americans watch international matches all the time. If you have cable TV or satellite, check your guide and see how many soccer games are available on the various channels and note how many of them are international games. The quantity alone will enlighten you a bit.

Get over it? Get over what? Your complete and utter ignorance? OK. I'm over it.

Now I certainly wish our own league had a higher caliber of player compared to long-established foreign leagues, such as Britain, Italy, and Germany. But it gets better every year.

And really, an outlier? THAT is going to bother me? I was a D&D player when I was 10. I was on the fencing team in high school. I proudly told stories about my LARP events at work. I do what I like and I don't give a shit what other people think.

Dude, popularity is a sliding scale sort of thing.

If you went to a school with 30 kids, and had 20 friends you were likely the most popular kid at school.

If your school had a thousand kids and you had 20 friends, you were likely part of the social outcasts.

So your raw numbers are largely meaningless. You can keep pretending that soccer has any relevance to the average person, (ie popularity), if you like.

[Brother Brian]

[blink]

when the hell did det institute that rule?!

Back during the whole "You're mean to noobs" debacle some months back. It was decided that we'd save the snark for GE&R.

[carmachu]

No proof according to your own personal metric, which means diddly squat. Soccer is the most played sport in the country. So clearly tens of millions of people care about it. But since they aren't all sitting in front of a TV watching it every week, nobody cares. :rolleye2: I guess nobody cares about chess or surfing or volleyball or track and field or yoga or jogging either. I don't remember seeing anyone with a Rodney Yee doll or a Gary Kasparov rookie card. Clearly unpopular.


No grendel, YOU havent proved that soccer, on the national stage- since you WERE talking about US beating Spain, was popular and people cared.

So the other day, what was discussed on say, WFAN or ESPN radio? It wasnt US vs Spain and the US victory. I heard much more on Mets vs Yankee's upcoming subway series.

Soccer, on the professional level is VERY unpopular. People in this very discussion have played soccer as kids, and STILL dont care about it.

We get it, alot of kids play soccer. But on the national stage? STILL no one cares. It IS unpopular. More care about Hockey then Soccer.

[Grendel]

Dude, popularity is a sliding scale sort of thing.

If you went to a school with 30 kids, and had 20 friends you were likely the most popular kid at school.

If your school had a thousand kids and you had 20 friends, you were likely part of the social outcasts.

So your raw numbers are largely meaningless. You can keep pretending that soccer has any relevance to the average person, (ie popularity), if you like.
Of course the numbers have meaning. If we know the national population (we do) and the percentage that participate in say yoga (we do) then of course that data is meaningful. You continue to use a definition of popular that I don't accept and which I believe most people would disagree with. You refuse to look beyond TV.


No grendel, YOU havent proved that soccer, on the national stage- since you WERE talking about US beating Spain, was popular and people cared.

So the other day, what was discussed on say, WFAN or ESPN radio? It wasnt US vs Spain and the US victory. I heard much more on Mets vs Yankee's upcoming subway series.
I don't listen to talk radio much these days. I saw the news about the win over Spain on the ESPN channel. They mentioned it quite a few times over the hour or so that I had it on.

Soccer, on the professional level is VERY unpopular. People in this very discussion have played soccer as kids, and STILL dont care about it.

Wow. Well if nobody here likes it, that must prove your point. Because surely we have a large population of Hispanic and European posters that ... oh wait, no we don't. You and BB are relying on personal experience to make a judgment about the entire nation. And in BB's case, he is additionally using a warped definition of 'popular'.

We get it, alot of kids play soccer. But on the national stage? STILL no one cares. It IS unpopular. More care about Hockey then Soccer.
Prove it. Show me evidence that more people watch hockey than international and MLS soccer.

[carmachu]

Prove it. Show me evidence that more people watch hockey than international and MLS soccer.


no grendel, YOU made the claim that it was popular...especially at the higher levels. You show me thats the case. The only thing YOu have shown is that youth soccer is on the rise.

[Grendel]

no grendel, YOU made the claim that it was popular...especially at the higher levels. You show me thats the case. The only thing YOu have shown is that youth soccer is on the rise.
What crack are you smoking? I said that the sport is popular. BB said it wasn't and that "nobody cares". He is demonstrably wrong. The sheer number of players proves that.

I also said that international soccer is more popular than MLS. Again, demonstrably true. Go to your cable/satellite remote. Go to the sports menu and look at the soccer games being offered on various channels. You'll see many dozens of European and South American games listed every week. And a few MLS games. According to BB's own standard, that makes soccer quite popular.

[Kalzazz]

Houston Dynamo, Los Angeles Galaxy, Cleveland Crunch. Hmmm Cleveland Crunch isnt MLS and no longer exists

Huh, okay, I cant name 3 MLS teams, only two

[silverwhisper]

guys, there appears to be a pretty significant disconnect here re: popularity of a sport, what that means and what the metrics of measuring popularity are.

soccer is clearly a popular sport: grendel's right that a lot of people play it. but a lot of the conversation here appears to be framed in the context of "only professional sports are a meaningful metric of popularity", which is IMHO a goofy position. clearly, popularity can be measured in a host of ways. i'm not exactly captain athletic, but i sure as hell know how to play soccer, and while i might suck ass on your team, at least i know--at least conceptually--what i should be doing if i'm on a field.

having said that: it's clear that as a professional league, soccer--or football, as the rest of the world calls it--sucks balls in the US in terms of popularity. that's big, red firetruck duh. and honestly, soccer's generally pretty darned boring to watch, right up there with baseball IMHO.

[Starhawk]

But, in Thunderdome we're supposed to be nice to each other.

Pouts.


Ehh, I wasn't trying to put the kibosh on anything. Just give Thunderdome some much needed traffic. Feel free to wiffle-bat each other till you're red all over.

[silverwhisper]

starhawk quoth:
feel free to wiffle-bat each other till you're red all over.
woo-hoo!

[wiffle-bats the stuffing out of BB]

:D

[Kalzazz]

I think its kind of interesting that I know offhand the names of as many non US teams as I know US teams for soccer, while for baseball and basketball I know far less teams of foreign countries, but do know at least a few pro team names for other countries (I know pro team names in at least 4 countries for baseball outside the US)

As for TV viewing measuring popularity, not sure. Ive seen far more cricket than soccer on TV, but dont know any cricket team names

[Grendel]

soccer is clearly a popular sport: grendel's right that a lot of people play it. but a lot of the conversation here appears to be framed in the context of "only professional sports are a meaningful metric of popularity", which is IMHO a goofy position. clearly, popularity can be measured in a host of ways. i'm not exactly captain athletic, but i sure as hell know how to play soccer, and while i might suck ass on your team, at least i know--at least conceptually--what i should be doing if i'm on a field.

having said that: it's clear that as a professional league, soccer--or football, as the rest of the world calls it--sucks balls in the US in terms of popularity. that's big, red firetruck duh.
Exactly. Our pro league just isn't up to the caliber of the European leagues. Yet. But it is getting better every year. Oh, and we're beating Brazil 2-1 right now. The defending champion of this cup and the last World Cup champion. Woohoo!!! So much for the lead. 3-2 loss due to a goal in the last 5 minutes. Great performance for 75 minutes against the second best team in the world. And a victory over the #1 team in the world. This kind of consistent good play shows that our national team is on par with the other great teams in the world. If only our pro league could follow suit.

and honestly, soccer's generally pretty darned boring to watch, right up there with baseball IMHO.
<klaxons go off>

A static-ridden voice comes on over the loudspeaker: "Attention. The opinion alarm has been sounded. This is not a test."

:D

[nermal2097]

I'll second that opinion. Football can be a mindnumbingly soul destroying 90 minutes of sport if you're not a fan, or a player.

[nermal2097]

Ok so 3-2 is not the arsekicking I had predicited.

But well done to the USA for getting that far in sport that "no-one" watches there.

[Zayda]

Ok so 3-2 is not the arsekicking I had predicited.

But well done to the USA for getting that far in sport that "no-one" watches there.


The US was actually ahead 2-0 through the first 45 minutes of the match. It was actually a great game to watch.