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IFMU
12-04-2006, 01:02 AM
Just read this... thought a few here might get a kick out of it.
Link to story (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061130/OPINION01/611300306/1008)

Yes. Bill assumes male guilt and opens door to unfair prosecutions.
Jeffery M. Leving and Glenn Sacks


B ob and Jane live together and, like many young couples, they sometimes argue. There never seems to be enough money, and while they both want to go to college, neither has yet been able to do so. Jane recently discovered that she is pregnant.

Jane is ambivalent about the pregnancy, and her friends think she should terminate it -- she's too young, and Bob isn't very stable. Bob would like to be a father someday, but not now -- he can't pay their bills and wants a better career.

One day Bob and Jane argue over some things Jane bought with their credit card, and Bob tells Jane he doesn't want to pay their bills anymore. He says he's tired of arguing with her, doesn't want her to have the baby, and wants to move out for a while and think things over.

Under a bill recently passed by the Michigan House of Representatives, Bob could go to jail.

House Bill 5882 creates the Coercive Abortion Prevention Act. Its purpose is to prohibit the putative father of a pregnant woman's child from coercing or intimidating the woman into terminating her pregnancy. While preventing violence or threats of violence against pregnant women is an admirable goal, the proposal goes way beyond this by interfering with constitutionally protected personal prerogatives.

The proposal actually makes it a crime for a man to "change or attempt to change an existing housing or cohabitation arrangement" with a pregnant significant other, to "file or attempt to file for a divorce" from his pregnant wife or to "withdraw or attempt to withdraw financial support" from a woman whom he has been supporting -- if it is determined that the man is doing these things to try to pressure the woman to terminate her pregnancy.

This violates men's rights. The U.S. Constitution's protected liberty interests safeguard privacy in areas such as contraception, abortion, marriage, procreation, child rearing and sexual conduct between consenting adults.

Do Michigan legislators believe these protections don't also cover the basic personal choices the proposal proscribes?

The bill is also laden with unfair assumptions of male perfidy. There are many reasons why a man might be unhappy over his wife's or girlfriend's pregnancy, and consider ending his relationship with her. He may doubt that the child she is carrying is his. He may feel he was deceived into the pregnancy. She may lash out at him during her pregnancy-related mood swings, and he may take offense.

A talented prosecuting attorney who may be looking for publicity could frame a man's decision as an attempt to coerce an abortion.

The accused need not be convicted to suffer egregious harm -- the cost of criminal defense is often ruinous, and the emotional toll can be worse.

The physical dangers from which House Bill 5882's supporters seek to protect pregnant women are real. It's debatable whether the bill's anti-violence provisions are good law, because the acts it specifies are already illegal.

However, protecting women from violence is one thing -- punishing men for their peaceful, private conduct in their personal relationships is quite another.

Jeffery M. Leving is a family law attorney based in Chicago and Glenn Sacks is a syndicated men's and fathers' issues radio talk show host.

TinSoldier
12-04-2006, 01:28 AM
I'm usually all in favor of men's rights, but in this case I say good. This is a step in the right direction.

The accused need not be convicted to suffer egregious harm -- the cost of criminal defense is often ruinous, and the emotional toll can be worse.That can be said about any law, and I know that from experience.

Wook
12-04-2006, 01:56 AM
I think the law goes way to far. I know far, far, far, to many guys who would be felons under this law and it's not as if the guy is already screwed when it comes to the abortion decision.

<mops up his own sarcasm for later use.>

wolf_mage
12-04-2006, 02:05 AM
I have no idea what to think. Instinctively, the law seems repulsive.

But then, it's a sticky issue. I'm reminded of the situation in which the man has zero say over whether he ends up with a child, but is nonetheless forced to support it. It seems, on the one hand, unfair to the man, but then you know, women should obviously be allowed to control their own bodies.

TinSoldier
12-04-2006, 02:06 AM
I have no idea what to think. Instinctively, the law seems repulsive.

But then, it's a sticky issue. I'm reminded of the situation in which the man has zero say over whether he ends up with a child, but is nonetheless forced to support it. It seems, on the one hand, unfair to the man, but then you know, women should obviously be allowed to control their own bodies.I think a lot of that has to do with the language and example of the article.

Wook
12-04-2006, 02:12 AM
It looks as though the guy could be put in jail simply for telling the girl what he thought of the the whole matter and it's made even worse because this is a topic that is absolutely, as a matter of course, going to lead to heated convo's and if it's enforced at all it will cause quite a few otherwise innocent ment to be thrown in prison. :( I am not happy.

Parzival
12-04-2006, 02:29 AM
The guy's on the hook for eighteen years of child-support, whether he likes it or not.
Most men don't like that thought.
So lots of men pressure the woman to have an abortion. Sometimes to an extent that is downright frightening.

<shrug> If you take the stance "her body, her choice" the law is reasonable. Perhaps even necessary.

Of course, I don't hold that stance. <grin> I still feel that the baby should get a say in the matter.

Lugard
12-04-2006, 08:58 AM
I believe there should be a law that says physical and mental abuse pushing for an abortion is wrong(Though most existing laws would cover this), but if a man wants to leave, its his own choice. I might call him a scumbag in some situations, but im not gonna force him to stay in the home. The funny thing about this law is its going to hurt the mother even worse than him leaving, as suddenly she has 0 money, and little chance of getting money after the baby is born, as he suddenly lost his job, has trouble getting another one, and will be spending a good portion of his earnings on starting a new life when he gets out.

LagomorphPrime
12-04-2006, 09:05 AM
Violence is already illegal. All this law does is drive one more nail into the testicles of men everywhere in case they'd forgotten that when it comes to pregnancy in this nation, we are bound, gagged, and strung up over a pit of vipers whereas women are free to come and go as they please.

Equality should mean equality.