[NFL] who do you like in the superbowl? [Archive]

silverwhisper

01-19-2009, 11:16 AM

so in less than 2 weeks, we'll have an historic superbowl, with one veteran QB seeking to bring his team a record sixth lombardi trophy against a another veteran QB seeking to bring his team its first ever.

PIT WR hines ward says (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3843412) he'll be OK to go with a slight MCL sprain.

personally, i see no way ARI comes away the winner and it looks like the oddsmakers are of the same mind, installing (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3843100) the steelers as 6.5 point favorites.

i'll admit that in my heart, i want the cards to take it: 60 years without a championship. but i just don't see their running game getting much of anything against the pittsburgh d, and that secondary is pretty damned good.

how about you guys?

carmachu

01-19-2009, 12:38 PM

I pick the Cards. *shrug* I think Warner can pull it out. Eagles game showed something.

Wook

01-19-2009, 04:36 PM

Unstoppable force vs. Immovable object.

Big Ben is a gunslinger kind of QB and Arizona's secondary, at least in the playoffs, has devoured those kinds of QB's by forcing them into mistakes.

Arizona's passing offense is super duper high powered.

Warm weather removes one of Pittsburgh's inherent advantages.
East coast game goes against the Cardinals.
(But with 1-2 weeks to acclimate to it I don't think it'll be a big deal.)

Pittsburg's D has, IMHO, been over rated in the playoffs. In their 2 games they've beaten...

San Diego minus LT, at home, in the cold, etc... That game's setup could not have been stacked more in Pitt's favor without someone taking a pipe to Rivers.

Baltimore at home minus one of their best defenders with a rookie under QB.

Color me unimpressed with that.

I think Arizona's going to pull it out.

Detritus

01-19-2009, 11:03 PM

This is a pretty pat analysis, but it's going to come down to Warner vs. Blitzburgh and how well Arizona can contain Roethlisberger and limit the damage he does outside the pocket. The Steelers' secondary is pretty good, but I don't think they can repel WRs of Fitzgerald and Boldin's magnitude, at least not without big help from the pass rush. Warner has been very good against the blitz this year, and Fitzgerald has been historically productive in the playoffs so far.

Right now I'm leaning towards Arizona. The X-factor is the Pittsburgh running game. The Parker-Moore tandem could do some damage. The Steelers definitely have the edge over the Cardinals there, even though Edge has been pretty spry in recent weeks.

Kalzazz

01-19-2009, 11:16 PM

I hope Arizona prevails, but no idea

Paulypalooza

01-20-2009, 04:53 AM

I'm taking Pitt in a close one

Brother Brian

01-20-2009, 09:25 AM

Pittsburgh by utter defensive destruction.

I STILL don't think Arizona's as good as everyone else does. They finished the regular season barely above .500. They haven't faced the best teams in the NFC in the playoffs.

Pittsburg is going to make Warner's day miserable. The only reason the game will stay close is because Rothlesburger will throw 2 plus picks and finish the day with a passer rating in the 80s.

Paulypalooza

01-20-2009, 12:36 PM

They haven't faced the best teams in the NFC in the playoffs.

You might want to rethink that statement. Arizona spanked Carolina pretty damn hard BB.

Brother Brian

01-20-2009, 03:25 PM

You might want to rethink that statement. Arizona spanked Carolina pretty damn hard BB.

They certainly did.

I just wish someone had told the Panthers that they were supposed to play.

Seriously, 6 of Arizona's 9 wins came against their own division, which, in a word, sucked. They beat a pre-wildcat Miami team, Buffalo, and Dallas.

That's right, in the regular season they beat 1 playoff team.

I have no idea who put what in Carolina's Gaitoraid, but it represented only the 3rd quality win of the year for Arizona. (Atlanta in the WC round and I have to count Miami since they made the playoffs, although to be honest, they handn't hit their stride yet.)

Against a shut down D like Pitts...they're toast.

Wook

01-20-2009, 03:59 PM

Against a shut down D like Pitts...they're toast.

Once upon a time... (http://www.superbowlhistory.net/superbowl/2000s.php)

Super Bowl XXXIV

On January 30th, 2000, at the Georgia Dome in Atlanta, Dick Vermeil's St. Louis Rams beat Jeff Fisher's Tennessee Titans, 23-16, in Super Bowl 34. The leader of "The Greatest Show on Turf," Kurt Warner had a record 414 passing yards and 2 touchdowns, taking home Super Bowl Thirty-Four's MVP. Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt snagged a touchdown a piece, while Marshal Faulk caught 5 balls for 90 yards. A record nine players caught passes for the Rams. Eddie George and Steve McNair led the Titans offense. Frank Wycheck and Isaac Byrd caught balls to keep the Titans' final drive alive, but Kevin Dyson was tackled on the one-yard-line by Mike Jones as time expired, sealing the Ram win.

That Titans team wasn't exactly what we'd call short on Defense...

I'm just saying.

Brother Brian

01-20-2009, 04:05 PM

Once upon a time... (http://www.superbowlhistory.net/superbowl/2000s.php)

That Titans team wasn't exactly what we'd call short on Defense...

I'm just saying.

Nope, you can't be short on D and win.

Move forwarda couple of years and see what the Greatest Show on Turf does against a great D with a great D Coach.

(Hint, a dynasty begins.)

Wook

01-20-2009, 06:44 PM

Nope, you can't be short on D and win.

Move forwarda couple of years and see what the Greatest Show on Turf does against a great D with a great D Coach.

(Hint, a dynasty begins.)

Sure. But it's silly to handwave away Arizona because you don't want to respect their wins against Atlanta, Miami, Carolina, and Philadelphia. Philly had one of the top D's in the NFL too btw... And you're also disrespecting that they won all 6 of their divisional games. That's not an easy thing to do. Even *in* a chump division.

Arizona is quite legitimate in the big game. And Pittsburgh's D is more suspect than you think. Neither of their playoff wins were particularly dominating and they're going to be playing without one of their primary advantages. (Home field/weather.)

I'm not saying Pittsburgh doesn't deserve but saying their D will shut down a 2 time MVP who also has a pair of Super Bowl trips and a Super Bowl MVP to his credit is dangerously arrogant.

carmachu

01-20-2009, 07:01 PM

I'm not saying Pittsburgh doesn't deserve but saying their D will shut down a 2 time MVP who also has a pair of Super Bowl trips and a Super Bowl MVP to his credit is dangerously arrogant.

Dude, he's a New England fan. Of course he's arrogant.

Paulypalooza

01-20-2009, 07:15 PM

Dude, he's a New England fan. Of course he's arrogant.

So sayeth we all

Brother Brian

01-21-2009, 09:11 AM

Sure. But it's silly to handwave away Arizona because you don't want to respect their wins against Atlanta, Miami, Carolina, and Philadelphia. Philly had one of the top D's in the NFL too btw... And you're also disrespecting that they won all 6 of their divisional games. That's not an easy thing to do. Even *in* a chump division.

Arizona is quite legitimate in the big game. And Pittsburgh's D is more suspect than you think. Neither of their playoff wins were particularly dominating and they're going to be playing without one of their primary advantages. (Home field/weather.)

I'm not saying Pittsburgh doesn't deserve but saying their D will shut down a 2 time MVP who also has a pair of Super Bowl trips and a Super Bowl MVP to his credit is dangerously arrogant.

They were the only team in their division with a (barely) winning record. Put them in the NFC East, and they were out of playoff contention before Thanksgiving Turkeys were slaughtered.

Also, you're confusing something here. Pittsburg doesn't have a "good" D. they have an amazing Defense.

I respect their win against Carolina, but you've got to admit, Carolina played like crap that day. I respect their win agains Atlanta too, but I respect it for what it was, a good win against an up and coming team. Not proof of greatness.

I also think it's embarasing that a barely above 500 team is going to the Superbowl.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong. I have nothing against Pittsburg, and Coach Omar Epps is f'n awsome, but their fans are annoying the crap out of me. I'd like nothing more than to hear them turn into whiney little bitches.

Brother Brian

01-21-2009, 09:12 AM

Dude, he's a New England fan. Of course he's arrogant.

What a load of horse shit.

silverwhisper

01-21-2009, 10:06 AM

i don't think of BB as arrogant. he's just opinionated--and who among us can say they aren't?

Brother Brian

01-21-2009, 10:17 AM

i don't think of BB as arrogant. he's just opinionated--and who among us can say they aren't?

No you see, I'm so arrogant about the New England Patriots, that I'm saying that ANOTHER TEAM'S D is so F'n awesome that it can shut down Arizona's passing game.

Get it, the Patriots are so good, that PITTSBURGH's D ROCKS!

Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either.

Wook

01-21-2009, 11:52 AM

I could give a shit whether or not you're a NE fan BB. Brady's from U of M, I cheer for him on occasion.

That doesn't make it any less arrogant to hand wave Warner out of th equation.

Brother Brian

01-21-2009, 11:59 AM

I could give a shit whether or not you're a NE fan BB. Brady's from U of M, I cheer for him on occasion.

That doesn't make it any less arrogant to hand wave Warner out of th equation.

Ah. So because I see it as Pittsburgh's D > Arizona's Offense, I'm arrogant.

Warner can be beaten, and has been by smart coaches who fluster him.

Arizona is not the greatest show on Turf. Warner's not what he was a few years back. Edge isn't running on Pitt's D. Shut down Fitzgerald, and lay a few hard pops on Boldin when he comes across the middle, and Warner's going to start bailing the ball out to Hightower in the flat...where he'll get swallowed up.

I'm not saying it's going to be a shutout. But I'll be shocked if Arizona scores 20 offensive points.

Oh, and the whole arrogance thing was aimed at Carm.

But you're so vain, you probably think that post is about you. [/Carly Simon]

Wook

01-21-2009, 12:30 PM

But you're so vain, you probably think that post is about you. [/Carly Simon]

Well you did quote me so it only seems fair. :sawink2:

And my point is that I think you're vastly over estimating the quality of Pittsburgh's D. I've already commented on why I think that but also keep in mind that their regular season losses were to high powered offenses and included getting rofl stomped by Ten. Arizona fits that bill. But more importantly look at 2 things... Take a look at Big Ben's game by game. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5536) note that in all 4 losses Big Ben was a liability. And what has been the strength of Arizona's D? Fancy that, they tied for 2nd most take-aways in the regular season. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=givetake&sort=ttot&pos=def&league=nfc&season=2&year=2008) And I seem to recall them making good use of the turnovers they've gotten in the post season too... Hmm...

silverwhisper

01-21-2009, 12:31 PM

wook quoth:
that doesn't make it any less arrogant to hand wave warner out of th equation..
dude, i don't know what's up with your reading comprehension skillz0rz today but that makes absolutely no damned sense whatsoever.

Wook

01-21-2009, 12:44 PM

dude, i don't know what's up with your reading comprehension skillz0rz today but that makes absolutely no damned sense whatsoever.

BB's love or hatred of NE has no bearing on whether or not it's arrogant to dismiss Kurt Warner's ability to take apart Pittsburgh's D. Personally I think it's your reading comp that might be a little off today. :sawink2:

silverwhisper

01-21-2009, 12:47 PM

no, it's definitely yours, wook. how is "handwaving" warner's skill arrogant? seriously: that makes no sense.

Brother Brian

01-21-2009, 12:48 PM

Well you did quote me so it only seems fair. :sawink2:

I quoted you on salient points, the response to the "arrogant NE Fan" charge clearly quoted Carm. The putz. :grin:

And my point is that I think you're vastly over estimating the quality of Pittsburgh's D. I've already commented on why I think that but also keep in mind that their regular season losses were to high powered offenses and included getting rofl stomped by Ten. Arizona fits that bill. But more importantly look at 2 things... Take a look at Big Ben's game by game. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5536) note that in all 4 losses Big Ben was a liability. And what has been the strength of Arizona's D? Fancy that, they tied for 2nd most take-aways in the regular season. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=givetake&sort=ttot&pos=def&league=nfc&season=2&year=2008) And I seem to recall them making good use of the turnovers they've gotten in the post season too... Hmm...

We'll have to disagree about Pitt's D. While they could have a bad game, I just don't see it.

And go back to my initial post. I pointed out that Ben would throw at least 2 interceptions.

That's the Card's real chance. If they can put up 7-10 points (with a pick 6 or great field position off turnovers), they could pull it out.

carmachu

01-21-2009, 10:28 PM

What a load of horse shit.

Judging by the rep, not in the least....

silverwhisper

01-22-2009, 12:01 AM

well, the people giving the rep are seriously fucked in the head.

Brother Brian

01-22-2009, 10:16 AM

Judging by the rep, not in the least....

Wow, you confirmed other people's bias, and ignored the apparent stupidity of your argument even when I laid it bare.

YOU ARE FROM NJ aren't you?

silverwhisper

01-22-2009, 10:29 AM

hey now...

[hefts trout]

Chimaera

01-22-2009, 10:39 AM

Yeah, uhm, BB... I'm pretty sure that ed's from NJ and carm is from NY.

carmachu

01-22-2009, 11:29 AM

Wow, you confirmed other people's bias, and ignored the apparent stupidity of your argument even when I laid it bare.

You of course, did no such thing. Saying something is horseshit isnt laying anything bare.

YOU ARE FROM NJ aren't you?

As luck would have it, no. NY actually. ed is from NJ.....

Personally I think your protesting too much.

Brother Brian

01-22-2009, 11:50 AM

Dude, you claimed that because I'm an arrogant NE fan I think Pittsburg's D will shut down Warner.

Walk me through that logic.

Chimaera

01-22-2009, 11:54 AM

Arrogance doesn't imply a bias for your own team, nor does not displaying bias for your team preclude arrogance. I think the issue is more with the manner in which the opinions are presented. Not that I'm agreeing; I find all of the accusations of arrogance to be kind of funny and more than a little hypocritical. "Arrogant" is heading down the same road as "racist" towards the definition of useless word.

carmachu

01-22-2009, 12:13 PM

Dude, you claimed that because I'm an arrogant NE fan I think Pittsburg's D will shut down Warner.

Walk me through that logic.

I'm claiming your an arrogant NE fan. With an opinion stated in arrogance that Pitts D is going to shut down Warner. Two sperate items.

The reading I've done even Pitt doesnt think they will shut them down. They have huge respect for....whats his name, Cards Fitzgerald? Who went to college in PA.

Their secondary isnt anything to sneeze at.

Pitts Def has looked weak at times during the regular season. Just as the last couple games of the cards season was pretty bad.

Warner has been able to make things happen.

Do I think Pitts Def is good? Absolutely. But dominiate? Shut down? Utter defensive destruction?

Yeah a bit arrogant.

But thats why they actually play the game.

Brother Brian

01-22-2009, 12:52 PM

I'm claiming your an arrogant NE fan. With an opinion stated in arrogance that Pitts D is going to shut down Warner. Two sperate items.

The reading I've done even Pitt doesnt think they will shut them down. They have huge respect for....whats his name, Cards Fitzgerald? Who went to college in PA.

Their secondary isnt anything to sneeze at.

Pitts Def has looked weak at times during the regular season. Just as the last couple games of the cards season was pretty bad.

Warner has been able to make things happen.

Do I think Pitts Def is good? Absolutely. But dominiate? Shut down? Utter defensive destruction?

Yeah a bit arrogant.

But thats why they actually play the game.

How is having an opinion arrogant?

I said I felt that the Pitt D would shut down the Cardinals One dimensional offense.

Apparently disagreeing with Wook makes me arrogant, or being from NE makes me arrogant, because sure as hell nothing in the post makes me arrogant.

Paulypalooza

01-22-2009, 01:16 PM

I can't speak for Cram but my comment was in response to this statement

Nope, you can't be short on D and win.

Move forwarda couple of years and see what the Greatest Show on Turf does against a great D with a great D Coach.

(Hint, a dynasty begins.)

Maybe it's because I live in New England but I can't go five minutes without hearing some fan or somebody from the media talk about how great the Pats are and how they got screwed in the playoff race.

carmachu

01-22-2009, 01:44 PM

How is having an opinion arrogant?

I said I felt that the Pitt D would shut down the Cardinals One dimensional offense.

Apparently disagreeing with Wook makes me arrogant, or being from NE makes me arrogant, because sure as hell nothing in the post makes me arrogant.

No, everyone here has an opinion.

Its your utter dismissal that makes you arrogant. You hold Pitts D up high, and dimiss the Cards Offense....with the "they havent played anyone of worth division"

You fail to remember, thats Pitts D has been made to look foolish in a handful of games. The Giants for one in week...6?

So if your so sure, what do you say to a gentleman wager?

Brother Brian

01-22-2009, 01:46 PM

I can't speak for Cram but my comment was in response to this statement

Maybe it's because I live in New England but I can't go five minutes without hearing some fan or somebody from the media talk about how great the Pats are and how they got screwed in the playoff race.

OK, but if you're going to apply that standard to ME, point out where I said that.

Brother Brian

01-22-2009, 01:47 PM

No, everyone here has an opinion.

Its your utter dismissal that makes you arrogant. You hold Pitts D up high, and dimiss the Cards Offense....with the "they havent played anyone of worth division"

You fail to remember, thats Pitts D has been made to look foolish in a handful of games. The Giants for one in week...6?

So if your so sure, what do you say to a gentleman wager?

Ah, so it's because my opinion is different than yours.

Got it.

Find me a gentleman and I'll be happy to make a wager with him.

silverwhisper

01-22-2009, 01:47 PM

carm, that's pretty screwed up logic.

1. it's got nothing to do with BB's loyalty to the pats. nothing at all.
2. you and BB have very different reads of PIT's defense. that isn't arrogant, that's just a difference of opinion.
3. a lot of people, not just BB, think that ARI's soft or overrated because they haven't played many playoff-caliber teams.

Paulypalooza

01-22-2009, 01:49 PM

Move forwarda couple of years and see what the Greatest Show on Turf does against a great D with a great D Coach.

(Hint, a dynasty begins.)

I all ready did.

carmachu

01-22-2009, 01:54 PM

Ah, so it's because my opinion is different than yours.

Got it.

Find me a gentleman and I'll be happy to make a wager with him.

So you dont want to back your opinion up. Just lord it around.

Got it.

Brother Brian

01-22-2009, 01:59 PM

So you dont want to back your opinion up. Just lord it around.

Got it.

Yeah, that must be it.

What are your terms?

carmachu

01-22-2009, 02:16 PM

Yeah, that must be it.

What are your terms?

Not sure the stakes. Thats up to you.

Since you think its utter defensive destruction:

If PItts holds the Cards to under 10 points, you win. If not, you lose.

If thats not acceptable, I'm open to terms.

Brother Brian

01-22-2009, 04:17 PM

What stakes? I'm not interested in commiting a felony using my employers network. ;)

As for the terms, to account for the reasonable possibility that Big Ben puts Arizona in scoring position through turnovers etc, how about this:

Arizona will score 10 points or less on drives that begin on their side of the 50 yardline.

carmachu

01-22-2009, 04:33 PM

Brother Brian

01-22-2009, 04:36 PM

thats reasonable.

loser changes their title to "I was wrong on football" for a week. Unless you have any other stake you want to raise.

We can do better than that.

If I win, you change your title to, "My @$$ belongs to the NE Patriots!". I'll change mine to anything you want that meets decency standards.

carmachu

01-22-2009, 04:40 PM

Sounds fine. I think of something to for amusement later, of a similar vein.

silverwhisper

01-22-2009, 05:06 PM

carm: how about if BB loses, he changes it to "maybe he is a mangenius..."? :>

Brother Brian

01-22-2009, 05:17 PM

carm: how about if BB loses, he changes it to "maybe he is a mangenius..."? :>

Ouch. What did I ever do to you?

carmachu

01-22-2009, 05:18 PM

carm: how about if BB loses, he changes it to "maybe he is a mangenius..."? :>

That sounds perfect.

Ouch. What did I ever do to you?

Remember that NJ crack a couple of posts back? Yeah, thats coming back to haunt you.

silverwhisper

01-22-2009, 06:03 PM

BB: well, if you hadn't been quite so vociferous about how evil mangini is, i might not ever have thought of it. :> and you gotta admit, it's just as punchy as what you proposed for carm.

and yes, there's a certain amount of my karma running over your dogma here... :D

silverwhisper

01-29-2009, 03:43 PM

so with less than a week to go, i'm not sure if i'm more curious to see the game, or see if either BB or carm have to change their profiles. :>

carmachu

01-29-2009, 04:05 PM

Well, thats the fun of it!

Paulypalooza

01-29-2009, 04:06 PM

so with less than a week to go, i'm not sure if i'm more curious to see the game, or see if either BB or carm have to change their profiles. :>

BB, definitely BB

Brother Brian

01-29-2009, 04:33 PM

silverwhisper

01-29-2009, 04:53 PM

BB quoth:
i'm sick of the steelers fans already
you know, it's hard not to like the steelers though. heck, i'm a bit of a fan myself.

having said that: BB, you do realize there's a certain irony in your saying this, no? i mean, not that you're one of 'em, but one year ago, pats fans were awfully vocal, too, and have had no small success in recent years in the championship game.

carmachu

01-29-2009, 05:07 PM

Because I can get exactly one radio channel in my office, I'm often stuck listening to Jim Rome.

He has yet to find an expert predicting that Pittsburg loses, and most are predicting they win big.

For the record, I frigging hope I lose the bet. I'm sick of the Steelers fans already. Here's hoping Ben throws 4 picks and fumbles a time or two.

My memory fails me a bit now, but wasnt that the same way WAY back when when NE played the St Louis after St Lousi won one superbowl, and that was the start of the dynasty there?

Didnt all the experts give it to the St louis?

Paulypalooza

01-29-2009, 05:28 PM

Because I can get exactly one radio channel in my office, I'm often stuck listening to Jim Rome.

He has yet to find an expert predicting that Pittsburg loses, and most are predicting they win big.

For the record, I frigging hope I lose the bet. I'm sick of the Steelers fans already. Here's hoping Ben throws 4 picks and fumbles a time or two.

I think Pittsburgh will win the game but not hold Arizona to 10 or less points.

Brother Brian

01-29-2009, 07:26 PM

you know, it's hard not to like the steelers though. heck, i'm a bit of a fan myself.

having said that: BB, you do realize there's a certain irony in your saying this, no? i mean, not that you're one of 'em, but one year ago, pats fans were awfully vocal, too, and have had no small success in recent years in the championship game.

I don't dislike the Steelers at all.

But to be honest, their fans are 10 times as arrogant and loudmouth as any Patriots fan I have ever met.

silverwhisper

01-29-2009, 07:39 PM

i dunno, man: i don't think fan obnoxiousness is dictated by team affiliation anywhere near as much as by the fan...

Paulypalooza

01-29-2009, 08:07 PM

Any fan can be a loudmouth ass no matter what team or sport

I don't dislike the Steelers at all.

But to be honest, their fans are 10 times as arrogant and loudmouth as any Patriots fan I have ever met.

BB surely you must realize that being a NE fan you are hardly impartial on the subject.

happykat

01-30-2009, 05:22 PM

Brother Brian

01-30-2009, 05:33 PM

Any fan can be a loudmouth ass no matter what team or sport

BB surely you must realize that being a NE fan you are hardly impartial on the subject.

True, but that doesn't make me wrong. ;)

Brother Brian

01-30-2009, 05:34 PM

I'm going to be cheering on the Cardinals. I don't have a preference for either team, but I despise the idea that the game is already won by the Steelers before it's even been played. Throw in a dash of rooting for the underdog and there you have it.

I predict a win by the Cardinals by at least 3 points.

I'm going to be cheering on the Cardinals too.

But BTW, you seem to be seasoning your predicition with it's main ingredient.

Mouser

01-30-2009, 05:39 PM

I'll be rooting for the Red Sox!!!

Or the Cubs, whichever is playing.

happykat

01-30-2009, 06:29 PM

What I mean is that there is an overwhelming assumption that the Steelers have this done. There will be no game, really, just movement of the players on the field. Maybe I'm listening to the wrong sportscasters as I don't really follow either team. <parz shrug>

Maybe it's no different than me predicting a win for Arizona, but I certainly hope there will be a game....a good one.

Paulypalooza

01-31-2009, 12:39 AM

I'm going to be cheering on the Cardinals. I don't have a preference for either team, but I despise the idea that the game is already won by the Steelers before it's even been played. Throw in a dash of rooting for the underdog and there you have it.

I predict a win by the Cardinals by at least 3 points.

I remember more than a few people predicting that the Giants were going to go down in flames last year. So don't count out the underdog.