Elite Units: V&V style

[bishoplogan]

Since DSumner made an Elite Unit thread:
http://www.criticalfumble.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14662

I made a template for V&V

NAME Spec Ops (generic)
Secret ID:
Created by:Bishoplogan

Side: Good Sex: M/F
Age: xx Level:4
Training:
1) + 1 to a stat
2) +1 to dam w/h. exp. weapons
3) additional language/or roll from back grd table(to reflect extra training)

Skills:
1.Heightened exp: +2 w/military equip(also any devices if part of uniform)
2.Nat weap: +1+2, spec -2 to be hit as per h.defense
3.Spec weapon: Combat suit,equip and weapons;
A) Bullet proof vest/flac vest 2x power pts when rolling with att.
B) Armor helmet :Adr 15% w/ comm set
C) Various heightened sense devices infer red,night,telescopic and low light googles.
D) Gas mask(life support vs gases).
E) Weapons fitting Op team.

OPPTIONAL:
A) If team is supposed to be super skilled, roll 2x from skills table plus a weakness for each member.Lose a skill to lose weakness.
B) If team is made to combat super's ie Gov/Corp black ops, roll 2x from device table the rolls are uniform for all members.
C) If team is experimented on ie Team 7, roll 2x on powers table or psi table depending on what your trying to do.


Weakness:

Weight: xxx lbs. Basic Hits: x
Agility Mod: -

Strength: 12 + 1d4
Endurance: 12 + 1d4
Agility: 12 + 1d4
Intelligence: 12 + 1d4
Charisma: 12 + 1d4
Reactions from Good: -x Evil: +x

Hit Points: (xx) Damage Mod.: -
Healing Rate: xx Accuracy: -
Power: (xx)

Carrying Cap: xxx lbs.
Basic HTH: xxx
Movement:
Detect Hidden: x% Detect Danger: x%
Inventing Points: x Inventing: x%
Legal Status:

Origin and Background:
Military/Law Enforcment (depending on group)
+ a roll from back grd table

Combat Tactics/M.O.:

Personality/Character Traits:

Weapons:

let me know what you think :shoot:
:sacool:

[AnotherSKip]

Looks like a good set of ideas that can be used for experienced, supers heavy V&V campaign.

[Imaginos]

I like it bishoplogan. I definitely like it. Consider it cribbed (or stolen, what have you) for my personal use.

[bishoplogan]

I like it bishoplogan. I definitely like it. Consider it cribbed (or stolen, what have you) for my personal use.
No problem feel free. we are all here to help each other

I would like to add various weapons and ammo types,like dum dum rds,armor peircing rds,depleted uranium rds,glacer slugs,poison glacer slugs etc.:shoot:

But don't have the time right now,sooooo if anybody would like to (*cough DSumner cough*) please feel free :th_salute:
:sasmokin:

[Strongman]

Do you think full-blown Heightened Expertise might be a little bit of overkill? :shrug:

[bishoplogan]

Do you think full-blown Heightened Expertise might be a little bit of overkill? :shrug: these are Elite troops.
Think about it base to hit 5+4h.exp+3rifle+3agil bonus max=15 and thats if they get the base 5.
If you feel the h.exp is to much feel free to mod it

[Strongman]

these are Elite troops.
Think about it base to hit 5+4h.exp+3rifle+3agil bonus max=15 and thats if they get the base 5.
If you feel the h.exp is to much feel free to mod it

But it's as much as a superhero. Depending on how you work your power levels in a game, that dose of Heightened Expertise means that each special operations soldier is the equivalent of a Green Arrow or Punisher with their weapons. I always thought that "official" V&V rules giving special agents and such a +2 to hit was more in line.

[bishoplogan]

But it's as much as a superhero. Depending on how you work your power levels in a game, that dose of Heightened Expertise means that each special operations soldier is the equivalent of a Green Arrow or Punisher with their weapons. I always thought that "official" V&V rules giving special agents and such a +2 to hit was more in line.
hhhhmmm I see what your saying,they would be equivalent to a first level Green Arrow or Punisher minus those hero's other skills.
If you look at how those heros started out at 1st lev they were stealthy and hid in the shadows,because an elite team of cops or equilvalent would be put on them.
just my take
but maaaayyyybe +4 is a tad bit too much:smokin:
:sagrin:

[DSumner]

OK, I've got few minutes of down time (spent most of the lat two days trying to get various pieces of electronics working), and I'm just now reading over a lot of this stuff. One quick question, how "realistic" do you want these guys to be? Are we talking real world elite/SOF, adventure movie (James Bond), or comic book elite (Punisher, etc.)? it'll make difference in how I would work out a basic template.

[bishoplogan]

OK, I've got few minutes of down time (spent most of the lat two days trying to get various pieces of electronics working), and I'm just now reading over a lot of this stuff. One quick question, how "realistic" do you want these guys to be? Are we talking real world elite/SOF, adventure movie (James Bond), or comic book elite (Punisher, etc.)? it'll make difference in how I would work out a basic template.
well what would be the difference? I put options if a GM wanted to make them comic book style.
DS your imput would be great.
:sagrin:

[Strongman]

hhhhmmm I see what your saying,they would be equivalent to a first level Green Arrow or Punisher minus those hero's other skills.
If you look at how those heros started out at 1st lev they were stealthy and hid in the shadows,because an elite team of cops or equilvalent would be put on them.
just my take
but maaaayyyybe +4 is a tad bit too much:smokin:
:sagrin:

It's all subjective, though. Green Arrow might have TWO of his powers in Heightened Expertise...or he might have Heightened Expertise and a bunch of training with the bow. All campaign-dependent.

Not really arguing it so much as pointing out the relative power levels.

I'm sort of against any "normal", even special ops types, having full-blown powers. Super heroes and super villains should have super powers. Normals should not, even with great training. Again, that's why I like how V&V would always assign a +2 to hit and -2 to be hit to agents and elite types. It actually goes a long way in regard to how effective such a person would be against a regular "normal". Give an agent or spec ops guy scores of 12-14 in every physical score (and throw in that range for INT, too, for the hell of it) and make him 200 lbs and you've got a guy with 10 hp and a total of +3 to hit, +1 to damage, and -2 to be hit in addition to 1d6 HTH damage. A "normal" with 9-11 in all scores and at the same weight has 4 hp, no bonuses to hit, damage, or for defense, and only does 1d4. HUGE disparity in power levels with only a relatively small adjustment.

[bishoplogan]

Again, that's why I like how V&V would always assign a +2 to hit and -2 to be hit to agents and elite types.
thats the second time you mentioned that ,its been a long time since i read the book front to back.
where does it say that at?
cause i might have to change my stats.
:sasmokin:

[Strongman]

thats the second time you mentioned that ,its been a long time since i read the book front to back.
where does it say that at?
cause i might have to change my stats.
:sasmokin:

It just seems to be a standard throughout the product line. I have all of my V&V stuff packed away in anticipation of a move right now so I can't access it but it's pretty common.

[AnotherSKip]

Agents info in the Chess/Supercrime area.

Actually I believe it is Martial Arts: +2 to hit -2 to be hit when aware

[Justice]

It's all subjective, though. Green Arrow might have TWO of his powers in Heightened Expertise...or he might have Heightened Expertise and a bunch of training with the bow. All campaign-dependent.

Not really arguing it so much as pointing out the relative power levels.

I'm sort of against any "normal", even special ops types, having full-blown powers. Super heroes and super villains should have super powers. Normals should not, even with great training. Again, that's why I like how V&V would always assign a +2 to hit and -2 to be hit to agents and elite types. It actually goes a long way in regard to how effective such a person would be against a regular "normal". Give an agent or spec ops guy scores of 12-14 in every physical score (and throw in that range for INT, too, for the hell of it) and make him 200 lbs and you've got a guy with 10 hp and a total of +3 to hit, +1 to damage, and -2 to be hit in addition to 1d6 HTH damage. A "normal" with 9-11 in all scores and at the same weight has 4 hp, no bonuses to hit, damage, or for defense, and only does 1d4. HUGE disparity in power levels with only a relatively small adjustment.

Well said. At 10 HP they are no pushovers, but a PC with a little training and a power or two can outclass them 3 out of 4 times.

There's all kinds of human targets:

Crunchies (one shot, out)
Munchies (two, then out)
Chewables (three)
Hard Candy (four - tough cops)
Beef Jerky (five -looking heroic)
Steak (six - definitely hero-level)

Just depends on how you want to chew them up in a firefight. And how long it takes before they go down.

:th_coolio:

[AnotherSKip]

Jawbreaker-7 Tough enough for multible heroes
Supersized Jawbraekers-8+ a team of heroes may fail

[Strongman]

Well said. At 10 HP they are no pushovers, but a PC with a little training and a power or two can outclass them 3 out of 4 times.


That's really my point. Any PC hero should outclass any non-powered, non-heroic (or villainous) single enemy human that is faced, even special operations types...otherwise they're not all that heroic.

The above specops/agent type with 10 hp and the bonuses should be able to take out at least two or three (or more) "normals" with the above stats. He's still a bad-ass in comparison to normals but he shouldn't touch superheroic characters, at least not by himself.

[bishoplogan]

Agents info in the Chess/Supercrime area.

Actually I believe it is Martial Arts: +2 to hit -2 to be hit when aware

Well said. At 10 HP they are no pushovers, but a PC with a little training and a power or two can outclass them 3 out of 4 times.

There's all kinds of human targets:

Crunchies (one shot, out)
Munchies (two, then out)
Chewables (three)
Hard Candy (four - tough cops)
Beef Jerky (five -looking heroic)
Steak (six - definitely hero-level)

Just depends on how you want to chew them up in a firefight. And how long it takes before they go down.

:th_coolio:

That's really my point. Any PC hero should outclass any non-powered, non-heroic (or villainous) single enemy human that is faced, even special operations types...otherwise they're not all that heroic.

The above specops/agent type with 10 hp and the bonuses should be able to take out at least two or three (or more) "normals" with the above stats. He's still a bad-ass in comparison to normals but he shouldn't touch superheroic characters, at least not by himself.

But it's as much as a superhero. Depending on how you work your power levels in a game, that dose of Heightened Expertise means that each special operations soldier is the equivalent of a Green Arrow or Punisher with their weapons. I always thought that "official" V&V rules giving special agents and such a +2 to hit was more in line.

It's all subjective, though. Green Arrow might have TWO of his powers in Heightened Expertise...or he might have Heightened Expertise and a bunch of training with the bow. All campaign-dependent.

Not really arguing it so much as pointing out the relative power levels.

I'm sort of against any "normal", even special ops types, having full-blown powers. Super heroes and super villains should have super powers. Normals should not, even with great training. Again, that's why I like how V&V would always assign a +2 to hit and -2 to be hit to agents and elite types. It actually goes a long way in regard to how effective such a person would be against a regular "normal". Give an agent or spec ops guy scores of 12-14 in every physical score (and throw in that range for INT, too, for the hell of it) and make him 200 lbs and you've got a guy with 10 hp and a total of +3 to hit, +1 to damage, and -2 to be hit in addition to 1d6 HTH damage. A "normal" with 9-11 in all scores and at the same weight has 4 hp, no bonuses to hit, damage, or for defense, and only does 1d4. HUGE disparity in power levels with only a relatively small adjustment.
these templates I made up a few weeks ago so I've never had I chance to play test them.

based on some of the things said here, they maybe a little over powered.
So I made some changes.
The options are still there if you would like to beef them up more :naughty:.
:sawink2:

[DSumner]

well what would be the difference? I put options if a GM wanted to make them comic book style.
DS your imput would be great.
:sagrin:

Sorry for not responding sooner, but things have been a little hectic. Well, real life elite and SOF (special operations forces) require different skill sets, depending on what they specialize in. For example Army Special Forces ("Green Berets") would have high Charisma and Intelligence scores, as their primary job is organize and lead guerrillas or counter insurgencies, where Navy SEALs are an assault unit, so they'd have high Endurance and Agility. But All of them would be in the realm of reality (nothing higher than an 18 for any stat)

Now what I consider "Action Movie" type SOF characters, say James Bond, would be be in the slightly unrealistic category (say 21-23 range stats), and performing stunts that aren't humanly possible (jumping passenger buses 75' through the air).

Comic book/four color type characters would routinely be able to perform superhuman type acts (fighting 12 guys to a stand still, shooting flies out of the air etc.).

If I get some time, I'll work up examples of each later this evening. And If you like, I'll repost the stuff I worked up for use with M&M.

[bishoplogan]

the action movie and four colors would be rolled from skills table.

but for real life stats would be slightly different?is that what your saying or would skills also be different.
I ask that because you were saying on the other post they all can do the same jobs with a little preperation.

[DSumner]

the action movie and four colors would be rolled from skills table.

but for real life stats would be slightly different?is that what your saying or would skills also be different.
I ask that because you were saying on the other post they all can do the same jobs with a little preperation.

Action Movie & Comic Book type characters would be rolled from the skills table. A good example of a comic book type, V&V character, would be "Mr. Scarlett" the "Assassin" from the Assassin module. There's no way a normal human would be able to pull off some of the stuff you see comic book or adventure movie characters do.

[bishoplogan]

Action Movie & Comic Book type characters would be rolled from the skills table. A good example of a comic book type, V&V character, would be "Mr. Scarlett" the "Assassin" from the Assassin module. There's no way a normal human would be able to pull off some of the stuff you see comic book or adventure movie characters do.
oh I know that,what im saying
" but for real life stats would be slightly different?is that what your saying or would skills also be different.
I ask that because you were saying on the other post they all can do the same jobs with a little preperation." applies to real life elite unts.
:sagrin:

[DSumner]

oh I know that,what im saying
" but for real life stats would be slightly different?is that what your saying or would skills also be different.

Once again, sorry for taking so long to answer. Ok, here's an example of what I mean. If I were stating what I'd consider a "real life" elite/SOF character, I'd place his stats in the 12-16 range, with a possible 18 or 19 in an extreme case. Skills would be in the +1 to hit, +2 damage, with +2/+4 being the extreme. They'd also have wide base of skill sets, but nothing that couldn't be achieved in real life.

Action Movie type characters stats would be in the 14-18 range with 18-21 possible. Skill wise, +2 to hit/+4 damage would be standard, with +3/+6 popping up on a regular basis. They'd also be trained in a ridiculous number of skills (as we all know every action movie hero was former SEAL, CIA agent, Delta Force Operator, and trained pilot all rolled into one :rolleye2: )

Comic book elite troops would be allowed pretty much whatever the creator feels like. +3/+6 bonuses, the guy could fly the space shuttle, and shoot he wings off a gnat at 2 miles, in the dark, while it's raining and foggy ("cuase he's the best there is, at what he does.")


I ask that because you were saying on the other post they all can do the same jobs with a little preperation." applies to real life elite unts.
:sagrin:

Also, a little clarification, in real life, while most units duplicate each others skill sets in certain areas, they do concentrate their skills. Also some units are not designed for certain tasks. You wouldn't send a group of Rangers to conduct a long term foreign internal defense mission, as their primary gig is to break things and kill people. Nor would I want to waste the talents of an Army Special Forces A-team, on an airfield seizure mission.

[bishoplogan]

Once again, sorry for taking so long to answer. Ok, here's an example of what I mean. If I were stating what I'd consider a "real life" elite/SOF character, I'd place his stats in the 12-16 range, with a possible 18 or 19 in an extreme case. Skills would be in the +1 to hit, +2 damage, with +2/+4 being the extreme. They'd also have wide base of skill sets, but nothing that couldn't be achieved in real life.

Action Movie type characters stats would be in the 14-18 range with 18-21 possible. Skill wise, +2 to hit/+4 damage would be standard, with +3/+6 popping up on a regular basis. They'd also be trained in a ridiculous number of skills (as we all know every action movie hero was former SEAL, CIA agent, Delta Force Operator, and trained pilot all rolled into one :rolleye2: )

Comic book elite troops would be allowed pretty much whatever the creator feels like. +3/+6 bonuses, the guy could fly the space shuttle, and shoot he wings off a gnat at 2 miles, in the dark, while it's raining and foggy ("cuase he's the best there is, at what he does.")okay got it



Also, a little clarification, in real life, while most units duplicate each others skill sets in certain areas, they do concentrate their skills. Also some units are not designed for certain tasks. You wouldn't send a group of Rangers to conduct a long term foreign internal defense mission, as their primary gig is to break things and kill people. Nor would I want to waste the talents of an Army Special Forces A-team, on an airfield seizure mission.oohhh okay gotcha:th_dblthumb2:

so my template, was on point
you dont have any v&v stats for weapons or various ammo laying around .do you ?
:sasmokin:

[AnotherSKip]

Yeah! Stats for this one:
http://www.firequest.com/catalog/G12-033MoreInfo.html

[DSumner]

you dont have any v&v stats for weapons or various ammo laying around .do you ?
:sasmokin:

I'd say keep it simple, use the weapons tables in the rule book, or the GM's screen as the basis, and go from there. I wouldn't worry to much about trying to get specific stats for various weapons.