So tell me about military life .....

[Origen]

It was pointed out to me, quite rightly, that I don't know my ass from my elbow about military life.

Now, ultimately, this game is about having fun. But I am interested in creating as realistic a backdrop of military life as possible.

Tin Soldier, Parz, Salah, Mouser, anyone else?

How would three people who are in the army get away once in a while for adventures?

[TinSoldier]

How would three people who are in the army get away once in a while for adventures?As in not on duty?

They would do it on the weekends or holidays or during leave time, like anyone else. You get 30 days a year of leave and can pretty much take it any time as long as the mission allows it.

Well, it's like taking vacation at any other job--if you are essential then good luck getting away for any appreciable length of time.

When I was in Twentyninepalms, CA, every weekend we would drive to Palm Desert or Palm Springs or go to clubs in Riverside or whatever. We would stay up too late, drink too much, etc.

We did a lot of exploring of the Joshua Tree National Monument. Some (very amateurish) rock climbing there.

I dunno if that helps. Anything more specific?

[Mouser]

IMX, you don't.

You work the jobs you are given until relieved.

For a draftee low on the totem pole who only really did guard duty, weekends were designed to take place at regularly spaced intervals.

As a married guy, I was home pretty much every night, and for Shabbos, except during training.

It's not just a job, it's a fucking pain in the ass.

[BattleNymph]

Would you be able to be assigned a case like the one in the game through the military? Through a higher up?

[Mouser]

Would you be able to be assigned a case like the one in the game through the military? Through a higher up?

Absolutely.

If I am on his team, he can assign me to whatever he wants me to do, if he has that responsibility and authority.

[TinSoldier]

IMX, you don't.

You work the jobs you are given until relieved.

For a draftee low on the totem pole who only really did guard duty, weekends were designed to take place at regularly spaced intervals.

As a married guy, I was home pretty much every night, and for Shabbos, except during training.

It's not just a job, it's a fucking pain in the ass.Yes, being single definitely helps in the time off department.

During my Marine Corps time, it was basically just a job. Usually eight hours a day with an hour and a half for lunch (!!) and weekends off. Except when we went to the field and that was maybe once a year for two to four weeks.

It was a support position, though, not infantry.

For combat type guys, imagine two to three weeks in the field every month with barracks time probably devoted to cleaning equipment and getting ready for the next field op. That would also be when they have their off time (once their gear is taken care of) for "having adventures".

[Mouser]

I have a friend who was an officer (quartermaster) on a pre-positioning ship.

His captain asked him how much food the Marines ate.

He said it was a function of quarter hour increments.

"If you give them 15 minutes to eat, then they eat x amount of food. A half an hour is 2x, 45 minutes, 3x, and so on."

[Magnus Bergqvist]

Absolutely.

If I am on his team, he can assign me to whatever he wants me to do, if he has that responsibility and authority.

And get away with it because it was just a special training-excersise. Of course that depends on how much leeway the officer in charge has on how to train/discipline the soldiers under his/her command. =^_^=

For example when I did my military service here in Sweden we would normally be allowed to go wherever during our times off. For example you didn't have to be sleeping at the base, you could theoretically be sleeping at home as long as you were on time in uniform at the morning gathering. If you were on "alert-status" (meaning your platoon were on call for guard-duty and other such response), you were normally not allowed to leave base the base and had to be able to report on duty within a certain amount of time if you were in the reserves.

/Magnus

[Salah_ad_Din]

I can speak from my Army experience, obviously it may vary between services.

When you're a new recruit, schedule varies wildly based on your service assignment. At my first assignment I had off every weekend and holiday without exception. At my second assignment I worked 6 days on two days off with comp time available.

In general there are two ways to get away from the post. You can get a pass, usually 3-5 days. These are not handed out like candy. You can get one as an attaboy for doing well, or you might wrangle one by asking for it. I've done both. If you ask for too many passes, you'll stop getting them.

You can take leave -30 days a year weekends included. This requires putting in forms ahead of time.

There's no way for a soldier to just leave for a few days. That's why the term AWOL exists.

Now, in game terms there's a good solution to this. Our military members need to be assigned to a post where their duties include this weird stuff. That's why I suggested having "The General" form a unit at Ft. Monouth NJ. All the Special Ops training and ninja stuff can come later as the unit matures. In every such unit IRL there are members who go to new schools to learn new skills.

In our hypothetical unit, when an assignment comes up the team member informs his chain of command through secure channels as I will desccribe below. The unit can provide accountability and felxibility at the same time.

Such a unit would need to contain a secure compound guarded by MPs or SPs. It could be very small, with guarded entry and security alarms etc. All of the material classified as "Classified," "Secret," or "Top Secret" would be stored here. All open discussions of such material would occur in offices here. Special courier permits would be needed to remove any material, and such removal is always scheduled beforehand. All personnel will require a thorough background check and approval for a Top Secret-Secret Compartmentalized Information security clearnace. Access to information is given only when access is required for the task at hand "Need to know".

In a case like our current assignment, Mundo and Steve would show the materials to their commander in the secure facility. All the material would be classifed (In this case probably simply as "classified") and filed away, with copies provided as needed. Mundo and Steve would not be placed on any formal pass or leave, but simply ordered to pursue the assignment.

Obviously most assignments would come from the top down rather than the other way.

That's my .02

Salah-ad-Din,
Jesus freak

[Salah_ad_Din]

I didnt bring it up in game last night but when you said "Well this is after Basic" I thought to myself "It doesn't work that way." A soldier just out of Basic but not sent to an assignment will be put into a work pool and might pick up trash or work in the kitchen. Depending on his station, he might not get any days off work. There's no way he could just take off a few days without taking leave or getting a pass.

The Army owns you 24/7.

In my own case the Army had already spent about $50,000 getting my security clearance. They were about to spend much more than that teaching me Arabic. But in between I picked up trash from the side of the road in Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.

Salah-ad-Din,
Jesus freak

[TinSoldier]

Heh. The Army sounds harder core than my MC experience.

WRT getting off of base, we basically had a mileage limit depending on whether we were on 24, 48, 72, or 96 hour liberty. We didn't really have to deal with passes unless we were requesting time off duty that was out of the ordinary but that didn't require regular leave.

I know after Basic the Army has AIT (Advanced Individual Training). The Marine Corps just called it school and that's what I was doing at Twentyninepalms for a year.

Unless we had screwed up and ended up with "weekend working party" we owned our weekends.

Different units have different policies, though, as has been pointed out. YMMV.

[Salah_ad_Din]

We had the same mileage limits, but "liberty" can be an elusive thing in the Army. Schools tend to offer that time off, but when you're a grunt in an infantry unit you camp for long stretches without liberty.

Getting a weekend off is doable within the mileage limits you describe, but planning an operation that may take days isn't. I think that the issue would be best resolved by having an organization that can provide accountability. Otherwise we'll end up AWOL at some point.

Mild mannered soldier in the motor pool by day, Special Ops hero by night, just won't work in the long haul.

Salah-ad-Din,
Jesus freak

[TinSoldier]

We had the same mileage limits, but "liberty" can be an elusive thing in the Army. Schools tend to offer that time off, but when you're a grunt in an infantry unit you camp for long stretches without liberty.

Getting a weekend off is doable within the mileage limits you describe, but planning an operation that may take days isn't. I think that the issue would be best resolved by having an organization that can provide accountability. Otherwise we'll end up AWOL at some point.

Mild mannered soldier in the motor pool by day, Special Ops hero by night, just won't work in the long haul.

Salah-ad-Din,
Jesus freakOh, I certainly agree. I just wasn't looking at it in that light--I was just trying to explain how military life, IMX, was very similar to civilian life in many circumstances. Especially with regards to having weekends/holiday weekends off and off hours during the week where a soldier has his own free time to do what he wants.

I would be in trouble if I didn't show up for my job in real life. However in the military I would be in a lot more trouble.

[Mouser]

My understanding of the US military was that AWOL didn't hit until 30 days of absence without leave, and in a volunteer military, they gave you a dishonorable discharge and a slap on the wrist.

In the IDF, they own you.

In my unit, they were very nice being as I was an older religious guy with a family.

Nobody wanted to keep me on duty over Shabbos.

That wouldn't be nice.

[TinSoldier]

My understanding of the US military was that AWOL didn't hit until 30 days of absence without leave, and in a volunteer military, they gave you a dishonorable discharge and a slap on the wrist.No, in US military they can get you for AWOL if you are any amount of time late for your appointed place of duty. Of course most soldiers and NCOs look out for each other so you would have to be a real shitbag to get dinged for being five or ten minutes late or if you call in (within reason). Or if you made a habit of it.

Of course, if you made a habit of it then eventually you would get a reputation as a shitbag.

If the absence is for over 30 days then it is desertion however.

Desertion can lead to prison time, maybe, in addition to a bad conduct or dishonorable discharge. Even in this time of war they don't execute soldiers for desertion any more.

Plus the punishment for AWOL (or UA -- Unauthorized Absence in USMC speak) may be relatively light. Usually it's just non-judicial punishment, also known as NJP or Article 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonjudicial_punishment). Depending on your rank you may suffer forfeiture of pay, confinement, and/or reduction in rank.

Guard and reserves, however, are more lax on AWOL. They don't usually punish it harshly unless it is pretty egregious.

In the IDF, they own you.

In my unit, they were very nice being as I was an older religious guy with a family.

Nobody wanted to keep me on duty over Shabbos.

That wouldn't be nice.I'm still learning about your religion by reading your posts. Not the really long quoted ones but just the little bits here and there. I really appreciate it since all I really know about Judaism I've learned on TV.

[Mouser]

I'm still learning about your religion by reading your posts. Not the really long quoted ones but just the little bits here and there. I really appreciate it since all I really know about Judaism I've learned on TV.

"Jewish Literacy" By Rabbi Joseph Telushkin

Don't mind me.

I come here to blow off steam, not to be an advocate for my religion.

I realize that I should spend more time on that, but I'm not as good at it as I wish.

[TinSoldier]

I keep trying to write something to explain my experiences in basic training here, but I keep failing. I'm sorry.

I just want to write something about Marine Corps basic training. I think it is similar and yet very different from other services.

In USMC basic training, there is no such thing as free time for eleven weeks. They literally own you. You get free time after basic.

For eleven weeks you are on a training schedule from 5:00 am to about 8:00 pm. You get up in the morning, get dressed and make your rack in an unreasonably short period of time, go get chow, and then march and attend classes or physical training or whatever else is on the schedule. All day.

From 8:00 pm to 9:30 pm you get what the call "Commander's time". This is your time for personal hygiene, extra physical training, extra study, shining your brass and your boots, writing letters home, etc. From 9:30 pm to 10:00 pm the Drill Instructor on duty does what is called a personal hygiene inspection. Everyone lines up and the DI checks your hands and your feet and asks you if you have any medical problems. Then the recruit who is following behind him squirts some mouthwash in your mouth and some aftershave on your face and you go to bed. And it all starts over again the next morning.

I don't know how the USMC handles devout Jewish Marines. On Sundays I think you got to sleep in until 6:00 am or so. It was a bit more relaxed. After morning chow you had a little bit of down time (all of it in the barracks, of course) but they pretty much required you to go to church. God help you if you told the DI that you didn't want to go to church.

You washed your dirty laundry by hand on the laundry racks. There was still some training to be done here and there.

At no time were you allowed to leave the barracks unless you were on an assigned "mission". Everything was done as a group.

Actually, in eleven weeks, you do get one half-day to go to the PX and buy some stuff and make phone calls. Otherwise it was very regimented.

Watch the movie "Full Metal Jacket". Except for the hitting (which was probably true for the Viet Nam era, not my own late eighties era) it is very close to my own experiences.

I don't know how other services handle it, but in the Marine Corps history is a very, very important subject. They want you to know that the USMC was founded in Tun Tavern in Philadelphia, PA in 1775. They want you to know that the Marines fought in the Revolutionary War and took the island of Nassau in the Caribbean from the English. They want you to know how the Marines fought the Barbary Pirates and how Lt. Presley O'Bannon won the Mameluke sword. They want you to know who Smedley Butler and Dan Daly were, two Marines who won two Congressional Medals of Honor each. They want you to know who Chesty Puller was. They want you to know how the Marine Corps essentially created the concept of close air support in Nicaragua during the 1930s. The Battle of Belleau Wood. I could go on a bit.

This is the kind of stuff they teach you in addition to just being a part of the military. While it may be laced with propaganda, I think I learned more about history in Marine Corps basic training than I ever did in High School.

[Mouser]

I don't know how the USMC handles devout Jewish Marines.

I do.

They don't.

I have a friend who was the rabbi on Paris Island for a tour, and the Jewish recruits would come to him on Sundays. He said that he did what he could to help them connect to Judaism, teach them how to pray, and counsel them.

The US Military has only one religion; the green one. If you aren't a chaplain, and can't fit your religion into the US Military, forget it. Nobody's going to prep a kosher MRE per meal for you to take chow or give you enough time to pray three times a day in the Corps, especially during Basic.

[TinSoldier]

I don't know about the Corps and Judaism with regards to boot camp, but I know the Army has Jewish Chaplains. I've met one. I'm sure that at least there they make some allowances.

I know they have vegetarian MREs and I'm almost positive they have kosher ones as well.

[Mouser]

I don't know about the Corps and Judaism with regards to boot camp, but I know the Army has Jewish Chaplains. I've met one. I'm sure that at least there they make some allowances.

I know they have vegetarian MREs and I'm almost positive they have kosher ones as well.

Did you even read my post?

Why do I even bother?

I said that my friend was the Jewish Chaplain on Paris Island.

IIRC, for two years.

I have other friends who spent time in Iraq as Jewish Chaplains, and my father was the only Jew on a tin can in the middle of the Pacific.

Yes, there are kosher MREs, but nobody is going to make allowances for an Orthodox Jewish Marine Boot. It just ain't gonna happen.

I repeat. The US Military has only one religion. The green one. Unless you can make your faith and its requirements meet the standards imposed by "Green-ism" then you are completely SOL.

[TinSoldier]

I'm sorry, Mouser. I seem to have a problem with reading comprehension lately.

I have no idea how I missed the entire point of your post.

[Mouser]

I'm sorry, Mouser. I seem to have a problem with reading comprehension lately.

I have no idea how I missed the entire point of your post.

My father taught me to make allowances for Marines.

I'll try to use single syllable words from now on.

:D

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[Hitcher]

I know the Navy has the BOQ - Bachelor Officer's Quarters, which is a cinderblock building with little hotel rooms, ac and a small bar at one end where you can get sandwiches.

Then there's Navy housing which are cinderblock townhouses. They'll all built the same I think. To paint a wall a different color or to hang a picture with a nail (where there isn't a hole already) you have to get permission. There's a small park with monkeybars, swings, sandbox and those giant spring kiddie rides. It'll also have an outdoor pavillion with picnic tables and those small charcoal grills you see at other parks.

There's the base exchange (NEX) that can look like a drab Target outside but cheaper prices or like a drab convience store that's got some better stuff. Both sometimes have stuff for uniforms. Then there's a commissary that looks like a drab supermarket. There's also a beauty shop and a barbershop and sometimes a Class 6 store where you can buy booze. Sometimes there's a McDonalds or a BurgerKing or something else like that and you don't need an id card to get in those.

You have to have your tan dependent ID card which I got when I was 10. You can't lose it or they won't let you into places without your mom or dad.

There's a base movie theater - sometimes it's the enlisted mess hall, sometimes it's one of those quansit huts the Marines use only bigger. It's almost like a regular movie theater only everything's cheaper and it's only open fridays, saturdays and sundays. Sometimes it's got ac. Usually it's hot and they have to prop the doors open.

If it's a small base, it has a small clinic. Bigger bases have hospitals so sometimes you to to one of them even if it's not a navy hospital. Both will have a large room just for innoculations and a big chart on the wall telling you what you need for where you're going.

Air Force bases look nicer than Navy Bases because the navy paints all their buildings gray or white, but AAFES (what they call their exchange/commissary) ice cream tastes just like NEX ice cream - your basic cheap ice cream. Military brats say "A-fees".