So, any Wrestling fans?

[JasonStarfire]

I know it's not a sport, but it is "sports entertainment," for what that's worth. Should this topic go here? That's my main question, but here's some wrasslin' related flavor text to possibly induce discussion. :thumbup:

I've been getting kind of jaded with the current state of WWE programming. The highlight of the recent months was when I got to attend the Cyber Sunday PPV live. It was the first WWE PPV to be hosted in Cincinnati, or so they say.

Anyone here watching TNA? I must say that it's nice to have an alternative (now that I have cable, that is.)

[Detritus]

You just posted this for the verbal component of a "Summon AJ" spell, didn't you? :p

I don't follow the wrasslin'. Brother Brian does for sure, and there are some others, but BB is the only one I can name off the top of my head.

[carmachu]

WWE sucks, really. I like John Cena, but beyond that DX is a REALLY old retread and isnt nearly as good the second time around. I dont even watch smackdown.

ECW is a bit inconsistant. Sometimes its good, sometimes its not. I'm not liking the "hey lets sticks RAW or Smackdowns stars there until we have a place for them again" style they seem to be doing to it now.

I'm really liking TNA. Its got that old school wrestling feel I use to have from watching old NWA or WCW days, which is nice.....thats really the program I watch the most.

[JasonStarfire]

I guess AJ can come back under the stipulation like "Hey, I only left the old forum!" Don't think anyone would let him live it down, though, to be honest. :p

I didn't like Cena at first, but his gimmick actually started to grow on me until he made the impromptu switch from rapper to marine to plug his movie. Lately, he's been a bit... I dunno, the flashes of charisma that got him where he is today seem to have all but gone away.

DX needs to go away. The whole "Jay and silent Hunter" schtick is past its prime.

I feel that we may be seeing the last fleeting remnants of ECW. They've all but integrated it with Smackdown, and their last PPV was a grade A flop, from what I hear. They did their best to integrate original ECW talent with the "new breed," of which there are some definite up and coming stars (yes, I mean CM Punk), but lately they've been squashing their old ECW guys and replacing them with people that just don't seem very 'extreme'. I mean, come on. Renee Dupree?

TNA has been pretty hit or miss, but overall I like the show. It reminds me of WCW when it was good. The NWA vibe is there, too, but that's not too terribly surprising since they compete over the NWA title. It's refreshing to see a roster that isn't 400+ lb guys on top, and everybody else gets the scraps.

[carmachu]

I didn't like Cena at first, but his gimmick actually started to grow on me until he made the impromptu switch from rapper to marine to plug his movie. Lately, he's been a bit... I dunno, the flashes of charisma that got him where he is today seem to have all but gone away.

Yeah well, movie plugs are going to happen.....I liked him from the start, so he's doing well. I DONT like Randy Orton there. It always seems he's relying too much on being a "third generation" wrestler......

A least the good news is we ARE NOT seeing the McMahon family dominating the TV time....


DX needs to go away. The whole "Jay and silent Hunter" schtick is past its prime.

It has its entertaining moments. But overall, without New age outlaws.....its not what it really was....


I feel that we may be seeing the last fleeting remnants of ECW. They've all but integrated it with Smackdown, and their last PPV was a grade A flop, from what I hear. They did their best to integrate original ECW talent with the "new breed," of which there are some definite up and coming stars (yes, I mean CM Punk), but lately they've been squashing their old ECW guys and replacing them with people that just don't seem very 'extreme'. I mean, come on. Renee Dupree?


Yeah, ECW is where they seem to stick WWE wrestlers they dont have ideas for. It was good for a while, but lately its becoming more and more WWE lite.
CM Punk is going to make a nice addition. But I dont know about the new champ, he doesnt have that killer extreme attitude about him. Reminds me alot of a Goldberg who knows a few more wrestling moves.


TNA has been pretty hit or miss, but overall I like the show. It reminds me of WCW when it was good. The NWA vibe is there, too, but that's not too terribly surprising since they compete over the NWA title. It's refreshing to see a roster that isn't 400+ lb guys on top, and everybody else gets the scraps.


Yup. Anyone can and has been champion. Their not too afraid to take chances on champs. Jeff Jerrett reminds me alot of a very old Rick Flair in his villian days....

Some is hit or miss. Christian seems to have intergrated nicely, but I'm not sure Angle will yet....And its nice to see Sting again.

[happykat]

I used to watch rastlin' when I was twelve to fourteen, but now....not so much.

It's too dramatized for me.

[carmachu]

Professional Wrestling, as its been said, is soap operas for men. Really no different that General Hospital, except without romance and with violance.

I'm not sure you'd like whats left in the WWE....

[JasonStarfire]

I used to watch rastlin' when I was twelve to fourteen, but now....not so much.

It's too dramatized for me.

I gave up watching wrasslin' at about that age. Then I made a few friends who did indy wrestling, and I slowly but surely started getting back into it on more of a technical level, so to speak.

I'll have to agree with carm as far as the lackluster nature of WWE programming right now. I watch the local indy program (HWA) when I can. Not as much soap opera there. :)

[Wook]

Once upon a time I was a rabid wrestling fan who watched the old WWF stuff with not quite fanatical ferver. Then I went to see an actual event once and OMFG was it teh sux. Never went back after that.

[JasonStarfire]

Once upon a time I was a rabid wrestling fan who watched the old WWF stuff with not quite fanatical ferver. Then I went to see an actual event once and OMFG was it teh sux. Never went back after that.

I had the opposite experience, believe it or not. I went to see the Cyber Sunday PPV, and while a lot of folks didn't think it looked very good on TV, it was a blast seeing it live.

[carmachu]

Depends on the event you go to. Live shows can be hit or miss.....I prefer indy ones myself....

[IFMU]

Ive bounced back and forth with watching it. When I get bored with it, Ill drop out for a bit, then get back in when it catches my attention again.
I started to watch TNA, but things got a bit lame IMO when sting came back. Which is really depressing cuz Ive always liked sting. lol
ECW isnt too bad, you can see who is going to be the 'up and coming' in there it seems.
Didnt care for Cena in the beginning either, just got on my nerves, he has started to grow on me a bit. Edge has become a moron, Orton always has been. Carlito, didnt care for him too much either, but hes starting to develop a bit and doesnt seem too bad. Maybe thats because he smacks around Masters so much? lol

[carmachu]

ECW isnt too bad, you can see who is going to be the 'up and coming' in there it seems.

Thats the problem. ECW is NOT a training ground or something. Its the home of extreme wrestling......


Didnt care for Cena in the beginning either, just got on my nerves, he has started to grow on me a bit. Edge has become a moron, Orton always has been. Carlito, didnt care for him too much either, but hes starting to develop a bit and doesnt seem too bad. Maybe thats because he smacks around Masters so much? lol



I dislike Edge, and Calito as well, and not in a good way...

[IFMU]

I know what ECW was originally and is trying to stay as.
But the way it looks now (at least it does to me) is that it's a training ground for new members.
I also know there are some huge names and awesome wrestlers there, Sabu, Dreamer and Sandman just to name a few.
Dunno, just the way it seems to me.

[carmachu]

I know what ECW was originally and is trying to stay as.
But the way it looks now (at least it does to me) is that it's a training ground for new members.
I also know there are some huge names and awesome wrestlers there, Sabu, Dreamer and Sandman just to name a few.
Dunno, just the way it seems to me.


I know what you mean. And its fucking sad. Because those names are HUGE in comparison to what is being shoved there now....

RVD, Sabu,Dreamer.....man between the three of them they hands down are better than the entire Smackdown lockerroom....

[carmachu]

Yes TNA is the heir apparant. I just finished watching ECW.....and man their pushing test to no end and frankly....he STILL SUCKS.

*shakes head* WWE is fucking up ECW so bad right now. It had a nice start, but right now it sucks ASS. You can tell its like the one step up from Ohio valley. A place they stick wrestlers they cant use on RAW and SMACKDOWN.

TNA is old school, very old WCW and NWA type school,a nd its refreshing. Much like you, I never cared much for say, Angle....but they've breathed fresh air into him.

You may not like them relying on sting.....but they need his star power. Behind Hogan and Flair, there isnt another guy out there thats that much of a star. I dont mind much, becuase he's not over used or pushed...

[carmachu]

Sorry, Angle in WWE just didnt do it. But he seems much more focused and intese in TNA.

I like Nash. He just does skits and is out of the way for the most part. Its fun.

I'd like him(Sting) out of the title scene, but lets be realistic: You CANT be a main eventer and not in the title hunt....I cant really see how. Unless you have a better idea.

The X division just rocks....

[carmachu]

Undertaker does fine as an unstoppable force who is basically above the whole title-scene much of the time... instead of focusing on chasing the title, the storyline focuses on the personal elements of the feud.

Not really. He show sup once in a while for a fued and thats it. I rarely see him and really dont care.

Besides, TNA has been trying to get off the ground. STing helps them with that.

Its apples and oranges.

[carmachu]

Angle is tied up in a fued with TNA's rising star....and helping him get MORE over.

Sting is helping the main event, and is usually a foil for Jarett....speaking of which, we havent seen him in a while, so I expect him back in this title race soon...

[carmachu]

I don't think so... there're always main-eventer heavy-hitters who aren't on the title-hunt. Sting has enough cachet that he doesn't need to be a title-contender to be a draw. They could be using the title-contention to develop and push their lesser-known talent, while relying on the big-names like Sting to pump the audience without hogging the title-limelight as well. Angle came in with tons of cred and rep and is doing really well without title-hunting. Certian performers are of sufficient caliber that they don't need either a title or a title-shot to be a draw.

I just wanted to bring this back up. Have you been watch Raw lately? And who were the last 2 in the royal rumble for the the title shot at Wrestlemania?

Undertaker and HBK....two of the oldest wrestlers, with the exception of Flair. And who gets a title shot at Wrestlemania? Undertaker.....

Talk about retreads....I hope this is the one he loses....

[Archer]

I had the opposite experience, believe it or not. I went to see the Cyber Sunday PPV, and while a lot of folks didn't think it looked very good on TV, it was a blast seeing it live.

I had a ringside seat to a match where Ted Dibiase was knocked out cold by Jake "the Snake" Roberts' signiture DDT maneuver. It was a tag team match, the last of the evening, at a high school auditorium. The crowd had already left the building by the time Dibiase's partner managed to wake him up.

I was a lot more convinced of the occassional non-fakiness of professional wrestling after seeing that match.

[carmachu]

I was a lot more convinced of the occassional non-fakiness of professional wrestling after seeing that match.


'Fake' is the wrong term for wrestling.

Staged would be a better term....because even if you stage how a match goes....somoe things can go wrong...

[carmachu]

So, the main events at Wrestlemania are Cena vs. Michaels and Batista vs. The Undertaker... unless they're planning on using the old goats to put over the young bucks, they're being really stupid. And even then, they're not playing it smart -- Michaels may be over, but he doesn't cut an intimidating presence. As it stands, Cena and Batista don't have much to gain (potentially breaking Undertaker's streak notwithstanding) and Michaells and The Undertaker have a lot to lose, as losses dilute their value as older veterans.

I just noticed that cena and HBK are tag team champions? WTF?!?

[carmachu]

Yeah, and they wonder why they can't build a proper tag-team division...

Yeah really. It was kinda neat to see Edge and Randy as the tag champs....it gave them some cred....but still killed the division.

I've noticed ECW is pretty sucky lately...the champs are, suprise suprise, all big men lately....just like the other two shows.

And thats never what ECW was about.


Does anyone know what happened to big show? did he get hurt or retire or something? Dropped the belt and I dont see him(granted I dont watch smackdown...if he's there).

[BattleNymph]

I used to have to watch WWF and GLOW all the time. Haven't been keeping up since then. All new wrestlers now and it's hard to make out the storylines they keep going in the game.

[carmachu]

GLOW use to be alot of fun....I remember that from ages ago.

As for the wrestlers and story line now.....there really isnt anything that good plot wise. It all changes to fast now. There arent many long term stories...each story is geared to the monthly PPV....and it kills a story plot.

[carmachu]

Show retired from accumulated injuries that he never took the proer amount of time off for. The idea was that he'd still come in for special programs and feuds every once in a while. But that doesn't seem to be likely to happen anymore -- he appears to be done with wrestling.


Thanks I didnt know. 500pounds on those knees and back couldnt have been good....espeically with some of the bumps he took.

*sigh* I hope ECW is better tonight. Lately its just been stinking up teh place. I hope this "ECW original" story line takes off.

I cant take much more of watching Test in a main event. Ugh.

[JasonStarfire]

I had a ringside seat to a match where Ted Dibiase was knocked out cold by Jake "the Snake" Roberts' signiture DDT maneuver. It was a tag team match, the last of the evening, at a high school auditorium. The crowd had already left the building by the time Dibiase's partner managed to wake him up.

I was a lot more convinced of the occassional non-fakiness of professional wrestling after seeing that match.

IIRC, Roberts' DDT maneuver started when he accidentally slipped and drove his opponent head first into the mat, so that's a strangely appropriate story. :)

*sigh* I hope ECW is better tonight. Lately its just been stinking up teh place. I hope this "ECW original" story line takes off.
QFT. They should have done this storyline months ago, before they alienated well over half of their viewing audience by shoving Test and Lashley down our throats.

This year's Wrestlemania lineup isn't great, but WWE has had major problems in recent years establishing credible headlining talent. Their OVW/DSW -> Smackdown -> RAW chain of development is too limited. They expect to be able to churn out Steve Austins and Ric Flairs without the years of dedicated work that made them what they were.

What WWE needs is credible competition. They have TNA and to a lesser extent ROH, but try as they may, they're nowhere near WWE level in fanbase. MTV's Wrestling Society X might be another nail in the coffin of the ailing WWECW, but I'd be surprised to see WSX get huge.

Speaking of competition, this week RAW is airing on Thursday at 8 instead of Monday at 9. They're going head to head with TNA. Thursday night wars, anyone?

[carmachu]

QFT. They should have done this storyline months ago, before they alienated well over half of their viewing audience by shoving Test and Lashley down our throats.

Hello, big show? I'm watching a string of big men come through....and now sniskty.....its sucking ass.

Still not sold on the story line since they all lost the other night.....for no real reasoning that I can tell.....




Speaking of competition, this week RAW is airing on Thursday at 8 instead of Monday at 9. They're going head to head with TNA. Thursday night wars, anyone?

*shrug* I Tivo them to watch them at my leisure anyway...so it doesnt matter.

[carmachu]

This incarnation of ECW started out as an attempt to cash in on the lightning in a bottle of the original and has turned into a dumping ground for rejects from WWE... it's a pretty lame scene, right now, and pretty watered-down. It seems that all McMahon recognizes is size and title-contenders -- anything else just falls by the wayside.

Yeah, which is why its sucking ass right now. Big men dont always cut it.

[BattleNymph]

Yeah, which is why its sucking ass right now. Big men dont always cut it.

Truer words.........

[carmachu]

were never spoken?

Dont get me wrong, big men have a place in wrestling. But its not ALWAYS top tier. I'll take Daneils and Styles any day of the week over any big man you name. Or Benoit and Angle....

[JasonStarfire]

Hello, big show? I'm watching a string of big men come through....and now sniskty.....its sucking ass.

Big Show at least brought a bit of credibility to the title. He's had some good feuds and been one hell of a performer over his career. He's not the best pick, but top guys in WWE are slim pickins these days. The obvious pick for champion of ECW would be RVD, but he kind of screwed himself last summer.

Lashley is too green to represent an entire company.

Test............ was in a tag team with Albert, this one time.

Nobody is going to take Snitsky seriously, no matter how bald he is now. I think the chart that I made for another forum sums it up nicely.

[Detritus]

Nice one, JS. :D

[carmachu]

The obvious pick for champion of ECW would be RVD, but he kind of screwed himself last summer.


How'd he do that? And he's not the only one....Sabu would be nice to see the titrle wrapped around again....


Lashley is too green to represent an entire company.


Didnt stop WCW and Goldberg.....he reminds me alot of him....

[JasonStarfire]

How'd he do that? And he's not the only one....Sabu would be nice to see the titrle wrapped around again....
RVD and Sabu were travelling together when they got pulled over for speeding back in July (it was the 2nd or 3rd of July, IIRC). They got busted for possession of marijuana, and I think RVD also had some pain pills or something. Sabu had something else on him, but I don't remember exactly what. Anyway, WWE stripped him of both the ECW title and the WWE title before he got suspended. If their mere presence wasn't so crucial to the initial ECW image, they probably would have been fired as per WWE's wellness policy.

The reason I'd put RVD over Sabu is because while either wrestler would be a great champion (I've been a huge Sabu mark for years), RVD has had exposure to the WWE crowd for years now and he's already over with them. Sabu is over with the origional ECW fans, but then again so is RVD.

Don't get me wrong. Sabu should get a title shot, I'd just give him some time to let a mainstream audience warm up to him. I'd be surprised if either of them got a title shot anytime soon, though.

Didnt stop WCW and Goldberg.....he reminds me alot of him....
Major difference between Goldberg and Lashley. Goldberg was a big guy who made up for his lack of pure wrestling ability with intensity and in-ring showmanship that made him who he was in WCW. He had that lightning in a bottle quality that only a handful of performers ever have.

Lashley... has big muscles. He's a sinkhole of charisma and he somehow manages to look entirely non-threatening despite his obscenely muscular physique. I want him to do well because he appears to sincerely like doing what he does, but he needs a manager or something. Anything to prevent such awe inspiring promos as:

"You say your name is Finlay and you love to fight. I say your name is Finlay and you're a baaaastaaard." :no:

[carmachu]

A shame, but frankly I dont care what they got pulled over for. If those two get fired, I have ZERO interest in ECW again. Ever. The way Vince treats ECW as a dumping ground for WWE reject talent is sad....

I havent watch much of Lashley, TBH. So I didnt know how bad his promos were. Goldberg did have a nice intensity and showmenship....*sigh* He might have sucked bit in ring, but he was entertaining.

[Brother Brian]

Haven't watched regularly for a year or so.

There's only a handful of guys who can tell a story in the ring anymore.

HBK can still do it, but he's getting more and more limited every year.

Daniels can do it, and it's a shame that his size kept him out of the WWE.

TNA is filled with guys trying to hit high spots, making it impossible to suspend disbelief.

The last great match I saw was HHH vs. HBK when Michaels was making his comeback. The psychology was great.

As for ECW, it sucked then, it sucks now, but now it isn't cool to like it.

[carmachu]

Naaa, ECW didnt suck.....It was fun. It reminded me of old WWE days...

[Jason]

Ultimate Dragon, ftw.

[carmachu]

Ok, Vince McMahon is the ECW champion? ECW offically jumped the shark....

[carmachu]

That's Ultimo Dragon, isn't it?

Ad I haevn't been watching for the last while... Vince made himself ECW champ?

Wow, does he have no clue why people loved ECW?


No, I believe he really, really doesnt. Bobby lashly has been ecw champ a while now.

Now of course Vince is getting into a feud with the old school ECW's (RVD, Sabu, Sandman, and one other guy), but really, its jumped the shark with this.

[JasonStarfire]

Damn. I've been missing wrestling with my new job and all. I could have lived with Shane getting the title (briefly, very very briefly), but Vince is just in a dick measuring contest with... well, with himself now.

[SD Anderson]

Old ECW style would tank in the ratings. Spike would run UFC up against it and have the better show. ECW either joins the Vince niche of 'sports entertainment' or it goes back to cancelation city.

Vince is playing to the "I Hate Vince McMahon!" crowd in ECW's fandom. It's not the first time he's held a championship belt and he'll likely go after the belt he hasn't won to get the trifecta in a couple of years.

Siddown, have a brew and some chips and boo the badguy while he's on the screen. Welcome to Wrasslin.

[carmachu]

Sorry, I'd rather ECW stay dead then see Vince with the title. Bobby lashly was bad enough.