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Marsden
01-13-2007, 08:24 PM
I didn't have a lot of hope of finding such a thing when I went to the PHB and Complete Warrior, which is what I have to hand. That would, like, encourage non-lethal outcomes to combat. :rolleye2:

So is there an official feat for losing the -4 to Attack to deal non-lethal damage with a weapon?

Or do I just whack it in as a new entry for the Expertise tree.

Parzival
01-13-2007, 08:47 PM
What I did was give clubs and staves a 50% chance of the damage being subdual.

Chimaera
01-13-2007, 10:32 PM
I don't know of any such feats or abilities and I haven't found any after a cursory search. Here's (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/bp/20030320a) a link to a possibly salient WotC article, but if I were you, I wouldn't make someone blow a feat for that. Make subdual or non-lethal an option and there you go: players just select which they want, with the default being whatever you want, lethal or not. I don't think that you're going to break the game by eliminating that particular penalty and feats are far too few to make this cost one, especially one at the end or somewhere up a particular tree.

Whimsical
01-13-2007, 10:42 PM
Book of Exalted Deeds is your source for non-lethal goodness. There's a feat for removing the -4 and another to turn spell damage nonlethal. And there are extra nonlethal weapons in the equiptment section.

If you don't have access, I can look it up for you.

Detritus
01-14-2007, 12:06 AM
There's also the merciful weapon enchantment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#merciful) that gives a weapon an extra 1d6 of damage but makes all damage it deals non-lethal. That might be the easiest thing if the power level of the campaign is high enough that +2-equivalent weapons are in play.

Marsden
01-14-2007, 03:47 PM
Ta'guys. I'm likely to be playing the character so I can't rely on the DM being generous with the rules. I'm OK to burn a fighter feat, and most of the "lose penalty" feats seem to have Expertise or Power Attack as a pre-req.

Whimsical if you could post the one from BoED for me I'd be grateful.

Unfortunately I want this to be an option from low levels, so no waiting for merciful to be available ( by which stage the PC is already an experienced killer) :th_thumbsdownsmiley

Starhawk
01-15-2007, 03:40 PM
What I did was give clubs and staves a 50% chance of the damage being subdual.

So, a 50% chance of being useless against undead?

Mouser
01-15-2007, 03:51 PM
<karate chops Starhawk across the back of the neck>

*thump*

;)

ed
01-15-2007, 03:54 PM
why not simply make a new feat, improved subdual? ditches the -4 penalty, can be used w/ all weapons, BAB +1 prepreq?

ed

Starhawk
01-15-2007, 04:22 PM
<karate chops Starhawk across the back of the neck>

*thump*

;)

No good. I passed my lichdom test last week.

You're not a monk, are you?

Chimaera
01-15-2007, 04:30 PM
No good. I passed my lichdom test last week.

You're not a monk, are you?

No, but he plays one on T.. I mean in Origen's campaign.

Whimsical
01-15-2007, 06:29 PM
Whimsical if you could post the one from BoED for me I'd be grateful.SUBDUING STRIKE [GENERAL]
You are adept at striking to deal nonlethal damage even with normal weapons.
Benefit: You can use any melee weapon to deal nonlethal damage with no penalty on your attack roll. If you are a rogue, you can deal nonlethal damage with your sneak attack even if you are using a normal melee weapon. This feat does not allow you to deal nonlethal damage with ranged weapons.
Normal: If you use a melee weapon designed to deal lethal damage do deal nonlethal damage instead, you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll. Rogues normally can only use saps or unarmed strikes to deal nonlethal damage with their sneak attacks.
Special: A fighter may select Subduing Strike as on of his fighter bonus feats.Unfortunately I want this to be an option from low levels, so no waiting for merciful to be available ( by which stage the PC is already an experienced killer) :th_thumbsdownsmileyAt low levels, I simply recommend using a sap for your nonlethal needs if you are proficient. There are also blunt arrows in the Races of the Wild and Arms and Equipment Guide that you can use to make ranged nonlethal attacks.

If you want to do more damage than a sap, there is the Truncheon from the BoED. A truncheon is essentially a heavier version of the sap—a one-handed martial weapon that deals nonlethal damage. As with a sap, a rogue wielding a truncheon can deal extra nonlethal damage with a sneak attack, but only if she is proficient in its use.

Truncheon
Martial weapon
One-Handed Melee Weapon
Cost: 2 gp
Damage: 1d8 nonlethal (1d6 nonlethal Small)
Critical: x2
Range Increment: —
Weight: 12 lb. (6 lb. Small)
Type: Bludgeoning

The book also details the Entangling Pole, Grasping Pole, and the Lasso.

Nonlethal Substitution is the metamagic spell that transforms spell's energy damage to nonlethal. Great for fireballing in areas when you don't want to damage the property or with noncombatants in the area, or taking down an opponent in questionable situations (when you are not sure if there is a misunderstanding going on).

Marsden
01-16-2007, 04:29 AM
Ta muchly. Subdual sneak attack wasn't an angle I'd considered either :)