Now that the Patriots are down...

[Wook]

...I believe the kicking is about to begin.

Apparently not only is Mr. Specter purusing discourse with the league but the Boston Globe said it has found an "unnamed source" that states that the Pats serupticiously taped the final walk through practice of the Rams before that Super Bowl. If that turned out to be true I would hope, and expect, for all involved pats coaches at the time to receive lifetime bans. I would expect the same or worse for any players involved.

We'll see how that one unfolds.

[silverwhisper]

that's weird, i coulda sworn that was posted here already!

i saw that saturday but i guess i wasn't here then.

very interesting story, this.

[Brother Brian]

Yeah, and "unnamed sources" often turn out to be BS.

For the last 4 months I've been hearing this kind of stuff, without one shred of evidence.

[carmachu]

Yeah, and "unnamed sources" often turn out to be BS.

For the last 4 months I've been hearing this kind of stuff, without one shred of evidence.

Well when the NFL commisoner keeps desrtoying the last set of evidence....one has to wonder whats going on....

[silverwhisper]

well, that's less worrisome than the CIA destroying its recordings of "harsh interrogation" sessions, if you ask me... :D

[JasonStarfire]

Well, the government stepped in and started grilling MLB and even pro wrestling over performance enhancing drugs. The idea was to prevent people from having an unfair advantage. The most evidence they had to go on there at first (unless I missed something, and I wasn't paying thaaaat much attention early on wrt to MLB) was "someone said this, and man... that guy looks like he's on the gas." In this case they had evidence to begin with, they just destroyed it. Fair's fair, and cheating can involve things other than drugs.

Y'know... it may be that I've had too much exposure to t3h int3rw3bs, but this situation just begs a photoshop that reads "The New England Patriots are watching you masturbate." :D

[Brother Brian]

Well, the government stepped in and started grilling MLB and even pro wrestling over performance enhancing drugs. The idea was to prevent people from having an unfair advantage. The most evidence they had to go on there at first (unless I missed something, and I wasn't paying thaaaat much attention early on wrt to MLB) was "someone said this, and man... that guy looks like he's on the gas." In this case they had evidence to begin with, they just destroyed it. Fair's fair, and cheating can involve things other than drugs.

Y'know... it may be that I've had too much exposure to t3h int3rw3bs, but this situation just begs a photoshop that reads "The New England Patriots are watching you masturbate." :D

I hate to break it to you, but pro-wrestling is fake, and any "unfair advantage" is entirely subjective, considering that the two best wrestlers of my generation, (the roid generation at that) were Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair, neither of which seemed overly juiced.

The government is trying to stop people from breaking the law, and dying, more than they are worried about the competitive advantage of steroids.

[JasonStarfire]

I hate to break it to you, but pro-wrestling is fake, and any "unfair advantage" is entirely subjective, considering that the two best wrestlers of my generation, (the roid generation at that) were Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair, neither of which seemed overly juiced.

The government is trying to stop people from breaking the law, and dying, more than they are worried about the competitive advantage of steroids.

Steroids are without a doubt an "unfair advantage" in pro wrestling. It's an industry where you have to get over on little more than your image. Steroids build up superficial muscle mass and turn you into a musclebound hoss. If you don't have a ridiculously over gimmick or buckets of charisma, or both- having muscles that look like they could burst at any second helps.

I'm looking at guys like Michales, Flair, Austin hell... even Taker was never really ripped. He was a big guy, yeah, but ask Mean Mark Callous how well being pretty tall worked out without something to get him over. Charisma and/or solid booking gets guys like this over... usually as a heel or a 'tweener. Remember that nobody gave a crap about Michaels until he kicked Marty Janetty through a window...

Now take a guy with no charisma and a flaky gimmick and see how you're supposed to get him over. Let's try someone like Chris Masters. Give him a few dozen pounds of muscle and he's an off and on main event contender. Take him off the juice and he's a midcard jobber - at best - and being wished well in his future endeavors.

Congress stepped in on pro wrestling because Chris Benoit decided to become a homicidal maniac at the same time that several other wrestlers were dropping dead in their 40s, so that was definitely more of a protection factor on behalf of the government. Look what happened after that... insanely over performers like Jeff Hardy are suddenly getting title shots again because the landscape got shaken up enough to allow that in WWE. I'm not saying that roid cases aren't still in the title shot, because IIRC the transitional legend killer, Randy Orton, has had his own problems adhering to the wellness policy (Edge too, unless I'm thinking of someone else), but still. It was an opening that probably would have otherwise not happened.

I don't recall anyone saying "Gee, I hope Barry Bonds doesn't develop a heart condition or beat someone over the head with his baseball bat." I recall hearing a lot more accusations of "CHEATER!!!!!111" wrt that incident. That was more my point. I should have written it better.

If there's cheating going on, it should be looked into. The NFL makes a lot of money doing what it does, and if it's not legit then there's a problem. If someone's cheating, it's no different than fixing games... which would make it fall under the category of "sports entertainment," no? ;)

[Brother Brian]

Steroids are without a doubt an "unfair advantage" in pro wrestling. It's an industry where you have to get over on little more than your image. Steroids build up superficial muscle mass and turn you into a musclebound hoss. If you don't have a ridiculously over gimmick or buckets of charisma, or both- having muscles that look like they could burst at any second helps.

I'm looking at guys like Michales, Flair, Austin hell... even Taker was never really ripped. He was a big guy, yeah, but ask Mean Mark Callous how well being pretty tall worked out without something to get him over. Charisma and/or solid booking gets guys like this over... usually as a heel or a 'tweener. Remember that nobody gave a crap about Michaels until he kicked Marty Janetty through a window...

Now take a guy with no charisma and a flaky gimmick and see how you're supposed to get him over. Let's try someone like Chris Masters. Give him a few dozen pounds of muscle and he's an off and on main event contender. Take him off the juice and he's a midcard jobber - at best - and being wished well in his future endeavors.

Congress stepped in on pro wrestling because Chris Benoit decided to become a homicidal maniac at the same time that several other wrestlers were dropping dead in their 40s, so that was definitely more of a protection factor on behalf of the government. Look what happened after that... insanely over performers like Jeff Hardy are suddenly getting title shots again because the landscape got shaken up enough to allow that in WWE. I'm not saying that roid cases aren't still in the title shot, because IIRC the transitional legend killer, Randy Orton, has had his own problems adhering to the wellness policy (Edge too, unless I'm thinking of someone else), but still. It was an opening that probably would have otherwise not happened.

I don't recall anyone saying "Gee, I hope Barry Bonds doesn't develop a heart condition or beat someone over the head with his baseball bat." I recall hearing a lot more accusations of "CHEATER!!!!!111" wrt that incident. That was more my point. I should have written it better.

If there's cheating going on, it should be looked into. The NFL makes a lot of money doing what it does, and if it's not legit then there's a problem. If someone's cheating, it's no different than fixing games... which would make it fall under the category of "sports entertainment," no? ;)

I'm not saying that Vince didn't, and still doesn't have a hard on for the bodybuilders. The guy was a roid head himself.

I'm saying that at the end of the day, Chris Masters, Tyson Tomko, etc, etc flash in the pan.

It's the insane death rate of wrestlers that has congress asking "WTF"!

For the fans? Sure, in sports it's the competitive advantage. We don't like Bonds, and don't like the fact that he cheated. But that has nothing to do with congress.

Think about it: Every holding call is a team cheating for competitive advantage. It has a built in penalty and everything. And holding is far more common than video.

The steroids to spygate connection is weak as hell.