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Haze
12-03-2006, 02:50 PM
Spy death inquiry moves to Russia (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/6203222.stm)

Counter-terror police are to travel to Russia as part of the inquiry into the death of Russian former agent Alexander Litvinenko, the BBC has learned.

It comes as Home Secretary John Reid said the inquiry into Mr Litvinenko's poisoning would expand beyond Britain.

Mario Scaramella - an Italian contact of Mr Litvinenko who is currently in hospital - is said to be "well".

Traces of radioactive polonium-210 have been found in his body. He met Mr Litvinenko the day the ex-spy fell ill.

'Wider investigation'

The BBC's Daniel Sandford said it was understood nine officers from the Metropolitan Police's counter-terrorism command could travel to Russia as early as Monday.

The specialist unit - which was launched in October to meet terrorist threats - is heading the investigation into the former KGB agent's poisoning.

News of the visit came after Mr Reid said the investigation was set to widen.

Discussing various aspects of Mr Litvinenko's death, Mr Reid told Sky News: "Over the next few days I think that all of these things will widen out a little from the circle just being here in Britain.

"Tomorrow I will be at the European Council and I will certainly be sharing information and getting what we can from European counterparts.

"The health authorities are already starting to liaise with our European colleagues and the police will follow wherever this investigation leads; inside or outside Britain."

Minimal dose

Shadow home secretary David Davis welcomed news that the investigation was expanding.

He told BBC One's The Politics Show: "I think it's a good thing, I think it's very important that no channel is left unpursued, that this investigation goes right to its limit wherever that may be and that limit should not be a diplomatic limit, it should be the limit of the evidence."

There has been no change in the condition of Mr Scaramella, who is being monitored at University College Hospital, London.

Doctors said the academic - who was one of the last people to meet Mr Litvinenko before his death last month - was "well" with "normal" test results.

He is said to be displaying no symptoms of radiation poisoning.

Mr Scaramella's lawyer Sergio Rastrelli told Channel 4 News his client was "clearly worried".

"The doctors said he has definitely been contaminated with polonium but it's not radioactive," he said.

"So he has ingested or inhaled it, but in [an] extremely minimal dose, far less than that with which Litvinenko was poisoned."

Critic

Mr Litvinenko's death is being linked to the discovery of polonium-210 in his body.

Friends believe he was poisoned because of his criticisms of the Putin government.

The Scaramella file resembles a story from a spy novel
BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner

On Saturday, airline Easyjet said Mr Scaramella had flown on flight 3506 from Naples to Stansted, Essex, on 31 October and also on flight 3505 from Stansted to Naples on 3 November.

But the Health Protection Agency (HPA) said it had no "public health concerns" about those flights.

Transport Secretary Douglas Alexander also moved to reassure the public and said the government did have measures in place at airports to detect "radioactive materials".

Radiological assessment

The Health Protection Agency said just over 3,000 people had now called the NHS Direct line in the wake of the radiation scare in the UK, with 179 being followed up for further investigation.

Twenty-seven people were referred as a precaution to a specialist outpatient clinic for radiological exposure assessment.

A total of 70 urine samples, mainly from medical staff and ambulance workers, have been tested and found negative.

I don't recall seeing this at the other forum but this has been rumbling along for some time now and with the case expanding out into the EU claims and counter claims are still being bandied around as to exactly how he came to be poisoned with the polonium and by whom. What are your theories?

nermal2097
12-03-2006, 04:56 PM
The Illuminati?

Detritus
12-03-2006, 06:26 PM
From what I've heard, Polonium-210 = Russia. They've essentially cornered the market on that isotope.

Parzival
12-03-2006, 06:49 PM
With all the critics of Russia suddenly turning up dead by nefarious means, another one must surely just be a coincidence!

Mouser
12-03-2006, 09:35 PM
I thought it was the Jews.

Detritus
12-03-2006, 09:46 PM
I thought it was the Jews.
It could've been Russian Jews. I call false dichotomy!

Baelfyre
12-04-2006, 02:50 AM
Eh, it could be the Russians. But they have reportedly lost quite a bit of nuclear material and weaponry, so it's not a guarantee. It could just as easily be somebody trying to send Putin a message or put pressure on his government.

LagomorphPrime
12-04-2006, 07:07 AM
The question isn't "who did poison him?" I can tell you "who". One of the new guys. His very first mission actually. I'm quite proud of him.

The question you should be asking is "who hired Laggy's clan to poison this guy in such a weird way?" Well, we don't give out that kind of info, but if you think long and hard enough you might figure it out.

Adam G
12-13-2006, 06:56 PM
It could have been anyone with Russian connections, since Russia's the most likely source of the Polonium.

Which means that it could have been damn near anyone, from Putin's government to rogue security elements to oligarchs who don't like the idea of Siberia for Christmas to Russian 'exiles' who think they can bring the glory days of Yeltsin back to Chechens to Islamic terrorists with a view to destabilising relations with the west to ed to Litvinenko himself to . . . .

Well, you get the idea. This is one of those stories that will run and run. I'm confident that it will ignite the imaginations of conspiracy theorists everywhere.

Hell, if you really wanted to go Cyberpunk you could argue that it was Shell Oil, laying the groundwork for a more sympathetic Russian regime by toppling the current one . . . .

carmachu
12-14-2006, 09:26 AM
It could have been anyone with Russian connections, since Russia's the most likely source of the Polonium.


Except, of course, its only CRITICS of Russia getting dead at the moment, by Russian methods......which leads one to think it woul dbe Russian operatives, or at their behest....


I mean, France doesnt have any reason to kill the two....

Adam G
12-14-2006, 03:19 PM
Except, of course, its only CRITICS of Russia getting dead at the moment, by Russian methods

That does assume: 1. that the murdered journalist case and the murdered spy case are linked in some way, (not proven) and 2. that nobody other than the Russian government had a reason to kill either an investigative journalist or a man who knew too much.

Russia's the next best thing to a kleptocracy right now. Add to that internal instability and a fragile rule of law, and voila! Killings. However that doesn't mean that Putin's government necessarily weilded the fatal polonium (or handgun).

Or:

A senior Russian government official told the Guardian it was inconceivable that the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, had ordered a murder which served only to discredit him. "It's completely against his interests," he said. Mr Putin's enemies were responsible for the murders of the journalist Anna Politkovskaya and Mr Litvinenko, the official claimed.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the official said: "I think it's linked and it's planned. What do they want? They want this - for Putin to be accused of lack of influence over the government and the FSB - even if it's not him there are people who can do this and he cannot stop it." He declined to say who he thought was responsible, but ruled out the mafia. "I don't think it was done by criminals," he said. "Maybe we will have a few cases more."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,,1969925,00.html

Personally I think the Litvinenko poisoning was far too sloppily executed to be a government hit. He could have been pushed under a train, knifed, shot; he could have suffered any of the thousands of potential deaths that an urban environment has to offer, without a whiff of real suspicion attaching to Putin's regime. Why blow a few million (after all, Polonium's expensive stuff) on a ham-fisted poisoning that only draws attention to the poisoner?

Heck, as I said on the other forum, if you really wanted to go nuts you could argue that Litvinenko, the recent convert to Islam who passionately hated Putin's government, might have been an al-Qaida agent who committed suicide in a spectacular fashion to drive a wedge between Russia (supplier of oil and natural gas) and the west. It's far-fetched, but so was a anthrax mailshot, once upon a time.

Parzival
12-14-2006, 04:43 PM
Personally I think the Litvinenko poisoning was far too sloppily executed to be a government hit. He could have been pushed under a train, knifed, shot; he could have suffered any of the thousands of potential deaths that an urban environment has to offer, without a whiff of real suspicion attaching to Putin's regime. Why blow a few million (after all, Polonium's expensive stuff) on a ham-fisted poisoning that only draws attention to the poisoner?

The obvious answer is: To send a message.
In plausible-deniability scenarios, it isn't certain that the Russian regime had him killed.
That doesn't work well for detering others.

Adam G
12-14-2006, 06:27 PM
The obvious answer is: To send a message.

Sure. In fact, it's about the only argument that makes even a lick of sense.

However there are many ways of sending messages. Polonium was too expensive, in money and in political capital, to be worth the trouble, and Putin's smart enough to know it. Simpler by far to do something unpleasant to Litvinenko's family, or cut him off from his patron Berezovsky.

Which is not to say that it wasn't a government source that did the deed. That would imply that the FSB has gone rogue, or at any rate that significantly important people within the Russian system are making a power play. Which makes the poisoning sloppy but more logical; after all, they'd want people to suspect Putin.

Which is what I was getting at before. This is something that will run and run. Conspiracy theorists will adore it. All it needs is a grassy knoll and we could be arguing over it for the rest of our lives - and beyond.

Adam G
01-26-2007, 04:49 AM
A new twist in the tale: the authorities have a suspect they want to extradite.

UK wants to try Russian for Litvinenko murder (http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,,1999128,00.html)


· Diplomatic clash with Moscow expected
· Kremlin could ask for billionaire Berezovsky in return

Ian Cobain, Julian Borger and Luke Harding in Moscow
Friday January 26, 2007
The Guardian

The British government is preparing to demand the extradition of a Russian businessman to stand trial for the poisoning with polonium-210 of the former KGB officer Alexander Litvinenko. Senior Whitehall officials have told the Guardian that a Scotland Yard file on the murder which is about to be passed to the Crown Prosecution Service alleges that there is sufficient evidence against Andrei Lugovoi for the CPS to decide whether he should face prosecution.

carmachu
01-26-2007, 09:35 AM
Kremlin could ask for billionaire Berezovsky in return


So who is this person the kremlin could expect to ask for in return for the murder suspect?

Adam G
01-26-2007, 09:51 AM
Boris? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Berezovsky) He's one of the oligarchs that managed to avoid Siberia. He also used to be Litvinenko's patron. He spends a lot of time criticizing Putin, but then so do most of the oligarchs.

I do rather like this bit of the wiki entry:

A 1996 Forbes magazine article titled "Godfather of the Kremlin?", by Paul Klebnikov, portrayed Berezovsky as a mafia boss who had his rivals murdered. Berezovsky sued the magazine for libel, and the dispute was ultimately settled with the magazine retracting both claims. Klebnikov expanded the article into a book, Godfather of the Kremlin, that Berezovsky did not contest in court. Klebnikov subsequently became the editor of the Russian edition of Forbes and was murdered in Moscow on July 9, 2004.

After his self-exile, prosecutors in Russia had accused Berezovsky of a host of crimes, including fraud and preparing a violent overthrow of Putin's government. Berezovsky denies all the allegations.